Quoting: slaapliedje

Quoting: Beamboom

Quoting: EikeAnd before it, there were the single game handhelds...

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That's the ones! Notice the square logo on the upper left of the lower panel. Those are the "Game & Watch" games I mentioned. They were huuuuuge in the 80s. There were quite a few of them, both of the single and double screen types, and we traded them at school so that everyone could get to play all the games available.

Those and the Game Boys dominated. Even though the Lynx and the Game Gear or Nomad were full color. Granted all of the portables ate through batteries like crazy!

Wow! My memory goes as far back as Pong and the Coleco Intellivision. I even played with the baseball mini-arcade game with basic lights, but I've never seen any of these. I've seen Gameboys once or twice in the 90's and that's all. What I've seen a lot is the Nintendo DS... This was everywhere up to the apparition of the Switch.

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On another note, I'm wondering if Valve didn't come to the realization that it's biggest threat is still Microsoft, this time with it's Xbox GamePass/XCloud that brings everybody under the control of Microsoft and it's store... Again... Valve realized that they still need an hardware platform that is not Windows based, to survive... That the threat didn't disappear, it just mutated. Just a guess.

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Quoting: Eike

Quoting: MohandevirI just don't believe in the smartphone argument... There is nothing to see there, imo. Gaming directly on a smartphone is sub-par and the screens are too small...

It doesn't appeal to me either, but you should ask Feral Interactive, I guess they've got (more information than us combined and) a different opinion on this matter...

Not saying that selling games on mobile can't be profitable... I'm just saying that your are not targeting the same audience. PC handhelds never ever happened at the right price bracket. Valve is in a postion to do that... Nobody else.

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I just don't believe in the smartphone argument... There is nothing to see there, imo. Gaming directly on a smartphone is sub-par and the screens are too small... Maybe on a tablet, but it didn't do any waves either. It didn't do any harm the the real gaming handhelds, imo. And when you are referring to Nintendo, it's all about undockable devices which is a huge asset of the Switch and SteamPal (from what is rumored).

Personnally, I think that dockable handhelds are quite a new thing and it's really interresting. In my point of view, it's like a laptop specialized and dedicated to gaming, which is exactly what I'm looking for. For other tasks, I got other devices. Anyway, it's not because you think it's dead that it cannot be revived, if given the right presentation and features.

Remember in the early 2000's? PC gaming was supposed to be dead...

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Quoting: CatKiller

Quoting: MohandevirTime wil tell... But this time, I'm getting ready to be in the starting blocks, if Valve hit the "sweet spot".

So this is the sort of target for a "handheld gaming PC." I think that something from Valve could solve a lot of its shortcomings.

I'm sure this device's 2560x1600 display is lovely, but it isn't able to hit that as a render target, pretty much ever. Dropping that to 1080p or 1920×1200 in the same sort of size will help it run at native res more of the time. Gamescope should be able to do a better job of upscaling than a third party using Windows when the device can't render at native res, too, as well as having the ability to run at 30 fps capped, say, without needing to change the game itself.

Xe is better than older AMD integrated graphics, but RDNA 2 is rumoured to be better still. We haven't had a shootout at the very low TDPs yet, though.

LP-DDR5 should have much better bandwidth at lower power draw than the DDR4 used in that device. I suspect that it will still need 16 GB, though, even at 1080p - less seems like too much corner cutting, which would hamper its longevity.

I think that Valve, as a long-term partner of AMD and (hopefully) getting economies of scale, would be able to get a much better price for the components than a crowdfunded company getting them retail from Intel. Valve also don't need to necessarily make a profit on the hardware. They won't want to make a loss, but they aren't relying on profits from the hardware to stay in business. That means that the price to customers of a Valve device should be quite a lot lower.

As I understand it, Windows is free if the screen is small, so the licence price isn't an issue for a handheld. They won't want to use Windows, anyway, though. It caused limitations for that other device. Valve can control the entire running environment of the games as well as the drivers and user interface, which a third party relying on Windows simply can't.

Seriously, at 8", I wouldn't be surprised if 720p was enough (I would try it, at least)... It would have the benefit of allowing higher framerates... Just a theory, and I might change my mind if I ever come to own one, but on my 5.6" phone, there is near to no visual difference between 720p and 1080p, while shooting/jumping/fighting, but it's a lot smoother in 720p (Steam Link).

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Quoting: Beamboom

Quoting: MohandevirMobile gaming? You mean like in Android playstore games? Because these are two different breeds of players. I, for one, never ever considered mobile games. Candy crush, June's Journey and touch screens in general are not my kind of fix. My wife though... :)

You need to look into what's actually available for iPhone and Android. It's every single genre. There's RPGs, mmos, strategy games, adventure games, action, puzzle, you name it. Even ported PC games. For instance, Rockstar has put all their earlier Grand Theft Auto games on there. Republique (stealth, great game) is another example.

But this also boils down to what we actually want to play on small gaming devices. Back in the PSP days I had a TON of PSP games, all sorts. But my favourite games on that machine were indeed all small, quick, fun games that worked perfectly on a small device.

Quoting: MohandevirWhat about the Nintendo Switch? With the Wii U, Nintendo was on the verge of going under... The Switch saved them

This is why I wrote further up in my replies:

Quoting: BeamboomThe market will see this as yet another attempt to breath new life into an old market segment that's pretty much dead unless your name is Nintendo.

They are the one single instance that survived the fall of the market of handheld gaming devices. An amazing example, but there's an agreement that it was the insanely strong catalogue of IPs in their fold and their long standing rock solid reputation on portable gaming devices that made this to be even remotely possible.

Remember, Nintendo is primarily a handheld gaming company. That's their home turf. I'm not so sure that a bunch of PC games have that same ability to push handhelds. But we shall see!

Quoting: MohandevirImo the real deal is marketing... Mass products are requiring mass marketing (including support). This thing must be available everywhere it's possible and be advertised on every inches of all visible walls. That's how it usually works.

But the product must also resonate with the market. Sony pushed a hell of a massive marketing power behind the Vita. They had a 100% dedication on that device for years after the rest of us declared it dead in the water.
But they were not Nintendo. They didn't have that insanely strong brand for HANDHELD gaming devices. Even after the great success that were the PSP!

For sure, I can't talk for all, but personnally, it's exactly the fact that I tried to play games on my phone with the Steam Link app that made me crave for a full fledge handheld... To me, mobile gaming is sub-par or with ports of old titles that I have already played, a while back. Imo, saying that handhelds is a dead market might miss the mark... It's probably that nobody found the right combination... Selling a handheld with basic hardware specs at 1000$ just doesn't make sense... Imo, in the handheld market, Nintendo never had any valuable competition (even the PS Vita, from reviews I read, back then). I still believe that Valve is in a good position if they put the marketing and support right.

Just in my close circle of friends, I discussed about the SteamPal to Windows gamers, and it raised a lot of interest, even when I told them it would probably be Linux based (with Proton). It wasn't the same kind of reception with the Steam Machines at all, at that time (even I couldn't find a reason to buy one). It feels like many PC players are ready to get onboard, but are waiting for the right offering (performance/price). But like I said in my other post, gaming hardware is a competitive market. Can't say that you're point of view is wrong either, but I believe that the handheld market is not as dead as many would like it to be (Nintendo probably likes that point of view) and there may be an opportunity for Valve to fill the gap.

Time wil tell... But this time, I'm getting ready to be in the starting blocks, if Valve hit the "sweet spot".

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Quoting: BeamboomYeah that is as far as I can tell the one single argument for it. But the question remains: What PC game would someone with a full gaming rig at home (who I would presume is the case for any gamer with a solid Steam library) rather play on the portable? Because that's the real scenario here. What would we prefer to play on the small screen?

Pretty much everything. I'm tired of sitting in front of my desk, after a long day of work (CAD design).

Quoting: BeamboomSure, if on travel or holidays one could imagine wanting a unit like that. But would we really purchase one for those occasions where we sit on a bus or sleep at a hotel? Wouldn't we then rather just buy a game on our mobile phone for that temporary occasion? It's not like there is a lack of options.

Mobile gaming? You mean like in Android playstore games? Because these are two different breeds of players. I, for one, never ever considered mobile games. Candy crush, June's Journey and touch screens in general are not my kind of fix. My wife though... :)

Quoting: BeamboomIf there's one case where I wish to be proven wrong, it's this one. I would love to see the resurrection of portable gaming consoles. I loved my PSP to bits. It was a machine I could not wait to play on again. A machine where I marvelled over the fact they were able to cram the entire Vice City into. A companion on all travels. An excuse in itself to travel!
But that was before mobile gaming took off. It was the PSP or nothing, I had no alternative. Would the average gamer invest in another gaming device when they already got a modern smart phone sitting right there?

What about the Nintendo Switch? With the Wii U, Nintendo was on the verge of going under... The Switch saved them and it all started from scratch with a handfull of titles. I see no reason, why it couldn't be the same for the SteamPal and Witcher 3 won't look like it's in a perpetual fog, on this device.

Imo the real deal is marketing... Mass products are requiring mass marketing (including support). This thing must be available everywhere it's possible and be advertised on every inches of all visible walls. That's how it usually works.

Quoting: BeamboomLike I said, I'd love to be wrong. But my money is on that I'm not.

I'm not going to bet against you on this one. Even Nintendo failed on occasions. It's a competitive market.

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Quoting: Eike

Quoting: BeamboomFrom a regular consumers point of view I believe this will be a handheld gaming device just like all its predecessors, with its unique pros and cons.

I already own over 300 games that run on it.

Quoting: BeamboomAnd what regular PC game would you want to play on this device? May I remind you that you must take into account the extreme downscale of the screen dimensions here.

Well, that's a good question and in the end would need trying. My favorite genre, point and click, comes to mind though.

Quoting: BeamboomSo I'm in on a bet on this: The market will see this as yet another attempt to breath new life into an old market segment that's pretty much died unless your name is Nintendo. It needs games suitable for a handheld, and it needs a SOLID market penetration for that to happen. And what are the odds for that...
We shall see, but I am no optimist on this one.

I wouldn't bet against you.

Still... Could it be worst than playing on a mobile device with the Steam Link app? In my personnal experience, Witcher 3's menus and texts are just a little too small on my phone's 5.6" screen in 720p, but it's playable. Isn't it going to be better on a 8" screen 720p? But your point is valid... I'm just wondering.

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Quoting: Hooly

Quoting: Mohandevir

Quoting: HoolyWith Thunderbolt coming to AMD boards, I could even imagine them selling a docking station with an AMD GPU in it.
From what I've heard, GPU hot-plugging might work better with Wayland compared to X11.

This is quite what I hope for too. Like Liam said, it would become the laptop killer I've been waiting for.

"Gaming on the go", in the bus/train to the job, with the 8", 720p screen (from what is reported) and comfortable 1080p or 4K gaming on my TV with the optional docking station (Doubtfull they would be able to sell the whole package for 399$).

If that's the deal, it's an instabuy for me. My wallet is ready.

They could very well just sell the dock separately. (Btw, FreeSync please :D )

In that case it could be a custom GPU optimized for the SteamPal (which would be my favored solution), but they could probably also supply an "empty" docking station that gives a minimal "overclock boost" with an option to "bring your own AMD gpu".

Yeah, it's all speculations, but it's fun brainstorming about the possibilities.

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Quoting: ShabbyXDon't do the same thing you did with Stadia people. You're making speculations, building expectations then hyping each other about it. Then you get disappointed when the device does not meet those expectations.

For all we know, this could basically be a steam link paired with a controller. It's a "pal", so maybe it's supposed to pair with a PC/seever where the game actually runs.

399$ for a streaming box? Makes no sense at all. Steam Links where 60$ and did the same and that's not what is being reported everywhere either.

Edit: And your Stadia exemple is a bad one... I'm quite satisfied with it.

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