Quoting: iiariAgreed. I've been using Manjaro Gnome Wayland for the better part of a year now on my work laptop and it's terrific. I have no idea how gaming is on Wayland, though, as I game on my Manjaro KDE xorg desktop.

How is Wayland for gaming right now?

I actually switched my KDE Plasma desktop over to Wayland about a month ago (well, I have it set so I can pick and choose between both Wayland and Xorg from login) - caveat, with an AMD GPU of course - and I'm assuming prety much every game uses XWayland anyway. Once I cleaned up some bugs related to really ancient configs I had being loaded, honestly for me at least it seems no different for gaming. No performance difference, MangoHud still works. Proton works if needed, too.

The main catch is if you're trying to capture a window or gameplay with something like OBS - there's a plugin for Vulkan renderer captures, and now in OBS 27 there's Pipewire support (that I haven't quite got working yet, but I run Gentoo so I fully expect I need to configure it yet).

I also have non-gaming related issues around copy & paste, particularly between Firefox (running Wayland native) and Discord (via XWayland), but pasting and re-copying from a Konsole window in between usually works. Apparently clipboard issues are common still, sadly.

I can't speak for GNOME, as I don't use it, but I have heard their Wayland support is a lot further ahead than KDE Plasma's.

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Still waiting on nVidia to release some kind of firmware support to the Nouveau team for GM20x and newer, personally, but I'm not holding my breath after this many years.

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Quoting: Shmerl

Quoting: KithopSo I think that's why EGL comes into play, here.

I don't think Wayland is tied to EGL? Wayland is a protocol, it's not really tied to a specific implementation. It can work with WSI.

QuoteThe Vulkan WSI (Window System Interface) is a set of API calls serve a similar purpose as EGL does for OpenGL ES or GLX for OpenGL. Vulkan WSI includes support for Wayland from day one: VK_USE_PLATFORM_WAYLAND_KHR. Vulkan clients can run on unmodified Wayland servers, including Weston, GENIVI LayerManager, Mutter / GNOME Shell, Enlightenment, and more. The WSI allows applications to discover the different GPUs on the system, and display the results of GPU rendering to a window system.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wayland_(display_server_protocol)

So that's why I was asking why they are using EGL instead of let's say WSI.

I'm not a developer, so I can't say I've looked at it in any sort of depth, but my hunch is that Vulkan + WSI would be used in e.g. a game wanting to draw its Vulkan backend to Wayland, without using XWayland as a path (i.e. a Vulkan + Wayland native game), while EGL is being used for 'normal day-to-day applications', i.e. OBS, to render *its* window and preview to Wayland.

I'm guessing that OBS could totally be written to support WSI, but that means having OBS itself use Vulkan to render its UI directly, and I have a feeling it's abstracting that out through Qt for the most part, so this is a function of 'OBS supports EGL output but not necessarily Vulkan (yet)', separate from whether the game you're *inputting* is on Vulkan or not. But again, just a semi-educated guess here.

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Quoting: ShmerlIsn't EGL OpenGL specific? I thought Vulkan is using WSI for example.

According to Wikipedia:

• The Wayland display server protocol uses EGL.[8] It is implemented in a way that Wayland clients will draw directly to the framebuffer using EGL.

So I think that's why EGL comes into play, here.

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It's funny - I *just* switched over to trying to daily drive Wayland this week, and I found this capture plugin pretty much the next day. I heard of PipeWire and xdg-desktop-portal after and am going to look into those as well, personally, but I liked that this almost gives us parity with the 'Game Capture' plugin for OBS on Windows.

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Quoting: GuestNeat, hadn't heard of that one. One advantage Tox has over it though is decentralization and possibly anonymity. You don't have to use anyone's specific server, i.e. everyone is a server since it's purely p2p.

Once the next major release of toxcore is out, group chats will have file sharing, so it will be more Element-like in that regard. But cool that there seem to be some other secure options out there. ^n.n^

Yeah, taking a real quick look at that, it reminds me that I've also played around with Jami in the past (previously GNU Ring), but honestly the thing I like about Matrix is that it is a bit more persisent/organized in that you can administer a server, moderate it, etc. - I'm thinking more for organizing a gaming guild, or a convention... something that blurs the lines between business-focused Slack/Teams, but with better voice UI.

Just doing ad-hoc group chats, yeah - that's got a few more options, thankfully.

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I'm still waiting and hoping someone with the dev skills I don't have figures out how to get persistent hop in/out voice channels on Matrix + Element, global hotkeys for push-to-talk / mute, etc. so it can cover and replace Discord's use case without splitting people up between the text chat 'community' in one app and voice via Mumble in another. Plus, connecting to and lurking in several different Mumble servers at once (not necessarily joining a voice chat) is.. not easy?

It's been something heavily discussed on the Element (formerly Riot) issue tracker since something like 2016 or 2017 I think, but their focus is on emulating/replacing Slack, so it doesn't get traction in favour of more business-focused features, since they're paying the bills for them.

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I didn't really have any huge issue with either the old radeon or even proprietary fglrx drivers back in the day, and it's not that nVidia's are broken or unworkable (unless you like to keep up with kernel development)... but AMD invested a ton into mainlining the amdgpu drivers, while nVidia still refuses to release the firmware that would allow nouveau to enable reclocking.

Any other system builder targeting Windows, sure, nVidia is more popular. But for a Linux-first integrator pushing for openness, it's just odd to me to not even offer the equivalent hardware that doesn't require a binary blob. I'm not even saying not to sell or even default to nVidia if that's what they want, but I suppose there might be a way to sweet talk them into letting you order a GPU-less system and then BYO card.

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It still baffles me that they're only offering various nVidia GPUs for their desktops - aside from the fact that no one seems to have much stock of anything, this is right up my alley of 'I would like to replace my aging desktop with something that supports Linux out of the box better'. I used to have a 1st and 2nd-gen Mac Pro tower, and those cases were amazing to work in by standards of the day.

Even if the Radeon options were just greyed out for now with 'out of stock', it's just so odd to push for openness everywhere else in the system...and then only offer nVidia's binary-blob-driver cards as GPUs.

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On the whole 'oh, it's an old PowerPC 750 on Perserverance', yes.

It's an extremely radiation hardened, military grade PPC750 (aka what Apple would call a 'G3'), and it's the same as previous Mars rovers and a number of I believe orbiters, other missions, etc.

Reliability in deep space is a huge concern, radiation is a huge deal (remember the 'cosmic ray bit flips'?), and it's a now heavily tested platform. I can't fault them for going with what they know has a well proven track record and reusing previous rover tech. Same reason it's VxWorks instead of Linux.

But yeah, it's not as dense as a modern (ish) Snapdragon 801 ARM SoC from 2014, and for a specific experiment where the performance/watt...per gram is a make-or-break, and even its potential for failure doesn't affect the main rover, it makes sense.

VxWorks isn't available for the Snapdragon 801, apparently, hence Linux, and here we are.

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