Quoting: whizseYeah yeah lightning... What about their willy physics!?

I'm not even interested in a game without willy physics!

(This is sort of an inside joke. Back in the day, at the beginning of the 3d acceleration age, I had gotten a Voodoo 1 card (Pure3d, had 6mb of ram instead of the typical 4, because I knew how to research hardware!). Friend of mine made a comment of 'I don't care about the graphics, as long as the game is fun.' Then I showed him how Unreal looked on 3Dfx. It was mind blowing back then. He changed his tune after that and said that he wouldn't play a game unless it looked amazing... strange dude.)

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Quoting: Purple Library Guy

Quoting: tohur

Quoting: slaapliedje

Quoting: tohur

Quoting: slaapliedje

Quoting: tohur

Quoting: reaperx7I love how Red Hat loves to push (force) people to buggy and incomplete software touting it as "stable" when the truth is far from reality.

Wayland is nice, but the fact that every compositor does everything inconsistent with each other, and often conflicts with how Xorg/XWayland does things, with pretty much everything the original developers intend, pretty much leave me saying "this isn't a good idea".

Honestly, nothing was wrong with Xorg, in my opinion. It works as intended like Windows GDI+. Yes there were some security flaws, but really, what was wrong with Xorg? I honestly see Wayland as a solution in search of a problem, not the other way around. If there was consistency with the compositors this wouldn't be a problem, but Plasma has their own problems, Gnome wants to be the rebellious child, Enlightenment is their own thing, Weston is sitting in the corner rocking back and forth thinking its a tea pot, and God knows what else the rest are doing running around the house aimlessly, but nothing is consistent while Xorg is sitting at the table, well behaved and saying "Oh so I'm not that important anymore? Have fun with the miscreants!" as it sits it's tea and reads the newspaper.

If you think Xorg is well "behaved" and not an issue you do not live in reality.. xorg is a utter mess and needs to go. frankly since swapping to Plasma wayland my PC performs much better

In my mind, the only thing Xorg needed fixing on was a better / more supported way to not run as root. Outside of that, they did all the work to make it modular during the development from XFree86. The problem is that people don't like maintaining old stuff, and want to play with new toys. That's all Wayland is. It'll be a new toy, until it isn't, then someone else will declare that it's crap and no one should be using it and then we'll be in the exact same boat as before...

There are definitely things that Wayland does okay, but nothing they do that is special over X11, and end up still needing compatibility layer to X11...

Performance wise, I notice very little difference between Xorg / Wayland. Like somethings feel a little smoother, other things feel slower. I definitely notice things just not working right in Wayland though. Weirdly, I had an issue where the Synology Drive app didn't want to work in Xorg, but would in Wayland... after a reboot, it was fine though.

Bruh xorg is gone man... fact is if you look into things alot of the Xorg devs left to wayland.. they did so when drafting up X12 which eventually became wayland. Xorg is old bloated and outdated af, code over 30+ years old, bugs that date back to the 80s that have NEVER seen fixes and will never see fixes. And if you have actually used a functioning wayland session I highly doubt you didn't see any performance differences. But seeing you use Debian might explain your remarks here because in a up to date system wayland blows xorg out the water. Also considering you use GNOME explains alot as wayland on GNOME sucks because GNOME being GNOME trys to do their own thing and frankly is terrible. IMO Plasma Wayland is the best implementation of wayland and truly shows where wayland is going and why its just simply better then xorg in every way.

Also I am of the mind set that every so often we need to create new display servers to get rid of all the crud and bloat because eventually wayland will see the same fate as xorg

I'm running Sid. I switch between Xorg and Wayland often, as some software is not working right under Wayland. And literally do not see any real performance differences (Granted, I'm also running a 7800 XT, Ryzen 9 5900X and 32gb of ram. Not the latest, by any means, but not a slouch enough to notice a few bits of slowdown anywhere in Gnome or KDE (I also like to switch between those for different reasons).)

It's funny that you say that Plasma Wayland is the best, considering they were so far behind Gnome / GTK on implementing them.

It could very much be one of those psychological things. Where someone says there is a speed difference and so you notice one, "Sure, I see it!" Kind of like seeing Jesus in a piece of bread? :P

But yes, if you knew how XFree86 evolved into Xorg, and the reasons why... Wayland sounds like they were just lazy and decided to dump Xorg for a newfangled thing. Xorg, at one point, was the 'New awesome and will fix all the problems because it's modular!'

Honestly, I think it's because a lot of people have died and a lot of new people have started using Linux and have been over promised for all these things... Until Wayland can get the damn clipboard to behave like X11, I won't be able to use it full time...

Edit: Just in case you also think "well Debian Sid is still ancient!" I also have Arch on the same system...

Running Sid? In my experience things break quite often in Sid and should NOT be what you are basing your opinions on because running a Unstable distro your literally asking for things NOT to work .. my suggestion if you want a rolling release pick an actual Rolling distro like Arch, Opensuse and many others that actually release packages with a bit more stability LMAO.. Honestly can't beleive I wasted time and my breath and here you are LITERALLY running an UNSTABLE distro 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Getting a bit rude there IMO.

Ha, dude flat out doesn't know what he's talking about. I've had less issues with running Debian Sid than I've had with the majority of other operating systems. Hell, I've had CentOS crash on me far more than Debian Sid. Granted, I've also been using Linux for 25~ years at this point. Not sure how many people recall the reasons why Gnome even exists, or the early arguments about how Xorg was going to fix all the things, and it'd be forever modular and upgradable, etc... Hell, I remember needing to look for commercial grade X11R6 servers because XFree86 was a slow mess on the hardware I owned.

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Quoting: tohur

Quoting: Purple Library Guy

Quoting: tohur

Quoting: slaapliedje

Quoting: tohur

Quoting: slaapliedje

Quoting: tohur

Quoting: reaperx7I love how Red Hat loves to push (force) people to buggy and incomplete software touting it as "stable" when the truth is far from reality.

Wayland is nice, but the fact that every compositor does everything inconsistent with each other, and often conflicts with how Xorg/XWayland does things, with pretty much everything the original developers intend, pretty much leave me saying "this isn't a good idea".

Honestly, nothing was wrong with Xorg, in my opinion. It works as intended like Windows GDI+. Yes there were some security flaws, but really, what was wrong with Xorg? I honestly see Wayland as a solution in search of a problem, not the other way around. If there was consistency with the compositors this wouldn't be a problem, but Plasma has their own problems, Gnome wants to be the rebellious child, Enlightenment is their own thing, Weston is sitting in the corner rocking back and forth thinking its a tea pot, and God knows what else the rest are doing running around the house aimlessly, but nothing is consistent while Xorg is sitting at the table, well behaved and saying "Oh so I'm not that important anymore? Have fun with the miscreants!" as it sits it's tea and reads the newspaper.

If you think Xorg is well "behaved" and not an issue you do not live in reality.. xorg is a utter mess and needs to go. frankly since swapping to Plasma wayland my PC performs much better

In my mind, the only thing Xorg needed fixing on was a better / more supported way to not run as root. Outside of that, they did all the work to make it modular during the development from XFree86. The problem is that people don't like maintaining old stuff, and want to play with new toys. That's all Wayland is. It'll be a new toy, until it isn't, then someone else will declare that it's crap and no one should be using it and then we'll be in the exact same boat as before...

There are definitely things that Wayland does okay, but nothing they do that is special over X11, and end up still needing compatibility layer to X11...

Performance wise, I notice very little difference between Xorg / Wayland. Like somethings feel a little smoother, other things feel slower. I definitely notice things just not working right in Wayland though. Weirdly, I had an issue where the Synology Drive app didn't want to work in Xorg, but would in Wayland... after a reboot, it was fine though.

Bruh xorg is gone man... fact is if you look into things alot of the Xorg devs left to wayland.. they did so when drafting up X12 which eventually became wayland. Xorg is old bloated and outdated af, code over 30+ years old, bugs that date back to the 80s that have NEVER seen fixes and will never see fixes. And if you have actually used a functioning wayland session I highly doubt you didn't see any performance differences. But seeing you use Debian might explain your remarks here because in a up to date system wayland blows xorg out the water. Also considering you use GNOME explains alot as wayland on GNOME sucks because GNOME being GNOME trys to do their own thing and frankly is terrible. IMO Plasma Wayland is the best implementation of wayland and truly shows where wayland is going and why its just simply better then xorg in every way.

Also I am of the mind set that every so often we need to create new display servers to get rid of all the crud and bloat because eventually wayland will see the same fate as xorg

I'm running Sid. I switch between Xorg and Wayland often, as some software is not working right under Wayland. And literally do not see any real performance differences (Granted, I'm also running a 7800 XT, Ryzen 9 5900X and 32gb of ram. Not the latest, by any means, but not a slouch enough to notice a few bits of slowdown anywhere in Gnome or KDE (I also like to switch between those for different reasons).)

It's funny that you say that Plasma Wayland is the best, considering they were so far behind Gnome / GTK on implementing them.

It could very much be one of those psychological things. Where someone says there is a speed difference and so you notice one, "Sure, I see it!" Kind of like seeing Jesus in a piece of bread? :P

But yes, if you knew how XFree86 evolved into Xorg, and the reasons why... Wayland sounds like they were just lazy and decided to dump Xorg for a newfangled thing. Xorg, at one point, was the 'New awesome and will fix all the problems because it's modular!'

Honestly, I think it's because a lot of people have died and a lot of new people have started using Linux and have been over promised for all these things... Until Wayland can get the damn clipboard to behave like X11, I won't be able to use it full time...

Edit: Just in case you also think "well Debian Sid is still ancient!" I also have Arch on the same system...

Running Sid? In my experience things break quite often in Sid and should NOT be what you are basing your opinions on because running a Unstable distro your literally asking for things NOT to work .. my suggestion if you want a rolling release pick an actual Rolling distro like Arch, Opensuse and many others that actually release packages with a bit more stability LMAO.. Honestly can't beleive I wasted time and my breath and here you are LITERALLY running an UNSTABLE distro 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Getting a bit rude there IMO.

Rude how.. like wut??! how is spitting facts being rude? I did not call the guy any names.. pointed out Sid is unstable and NOT a rolling release. and also pointed out from my point of view I wasted my time and breath trying to point things out to someone complaining about something being "broken" and yet here they are running an UNSTABLE distro.. don't tell me you are the type to take caps as "yelling" lol

Well, anyone who actually declares Debian Sid (unstable) as an actual unstable distribution has never ran Debian Sid or compared it to Fedora. I've had far less breakages running Debian Sid than I ever have running Fedora. Arch has had more breakages than Debian Sid. I can't stand Yast for very long, so I can't really say much about Tumbleweed.

1) I know what I'm doing. 2) the only time Sid really breaks is right after a new stable is released, because there is a flood of new packages that were sitting in experimental.

By the way, you also ignored that I also run Arch in a triple boot (along with the OS that shall not be named). I also run many other operating systems in my day to day, and Debian 'unstable' is one of the more stable operating systems on the planet. You do know that Ubuntu pulls from Debian Unstable, right? Like Ubuntu wouldn't exist without Debian Sid?

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Quoting: japzone

Quoting: slaapliedjeThat said, anyone remember the Atari Lynx (and I think the Game Boy supported this too) where you could connect a cable and play multiplayer... I wonder how feasible that'd be to do with two Steam Decks...

Definitely possible using Ethernet/Wifi and a game that supports direct IP multiplayer, or hosting a local server. But it definitely wouldn't be a plug-and-play setup.

Yeah, I was thinking the same.

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Quoting: RavenWings

Quoting: slaapliedjeFriend of mine has recently asked me what I think the greatest CRPG ever made was. I said Ultima IV.

I remember playing Ultima IV on C64 and having my brother explain to me, that those bright-green blobs everywhere are NOT poison-swamps as I imagined, but trees and woods. Suddenly it was a whole new world. Good times

Ultima IV on the Atari 800XL was probably what defined most of my skill set as an adult...

We'd gotten a copy that must have been off the originals, as there were a few things that didn't work due to the copy protection...

1) you could hit something over and over again, and the most it'd do was say '... is lightly wounded.' This was fixed because there was a single track on the disk that was supposed to be unreadable. With our Happy drive, we took a disk with crappy games on it, drew over it with a pencil, then copied that single track from the bad disk over to the Ultima disk, and that fixed the 'lightly wounded' issue.
2) There was a sector that was blanked where Empath Abby and where Mondain's skull was. I ended up having to take some graph paper, figuring out what all the bits converted to tile types and drawing out an appropriate forest / plains / castle. (to find the castle location, I wrote the bit over the entire sector of the town and pressed the 'E'nter key until I found the right spot!). Haha, did all this when I was 11. Hex editors rule.

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Quoting: ElectricPrismCall of Booty

That sounds like a better game than Call of Duty!

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Quoting: tohur

Quoting: slaapliedje

Quoting: tohur

Quoting: reaperx7I love how Red Hat loves to push (force) people to buggy and incomplete software touting it as "stable" when the truth is far from reality.

Wayland is nice, but the fact that every compositor does everything inconsistent with each other, and often conflicts with how Xorg/XWayland does things, with pretty much everything the original developers intend, pretty much leave me saying "this isn't a good idea".

Honestly, nothing was wrong with Xorg, in my opinion. It works as intended like Windows GDI+. Yes there were some security flaws, but really, what was wrong with Xorg? I honestly see Wayland as a solution in search of a problem, not the other way around. If there was consistency with the compositors this wouldn't be a problem, but Plasma has their own problems, Gnome wants to be the rebellious child, Enlightenment is their own thing, Weston is sitting in the corner rocking back and forth thinking its a tea pot, and God knows what else the rest are doing running around the house aimlessly, but nothing is consistent while Xorg is sitting at the table, well behaved and saying "Oh so I'm not that important anymore? Have fun with the miscreants!" as it sits it's tea and reads the newspaper.

If you think Xorg is well "behaved" and not an issue you do not live in reality.. xorg is a utter mess and needs to go. frankly since swapping to Plasma wayland my PC performs much better

In my mind, the only thing Xorg needed fixing on was a better / more supported way to not run as root. Outside of that, they did all the work to make it modular during the development from XFree86. The problem is that people don't like maintaining old stuff, and want to play with new toys. That's all Wayland is. It'll be a new toy, until it isn't, then someone else will declare that it's crap and no one should be using it and then we'll be in the exact same boat as before...

There are definitely things that Wayland does okay, but nothing they do that is special over X11, and end up still needing compatibility layer to X11...

Performance wise, I notice very little difference between Xorg / Wayland. Like somethings feel a little smoother, other things feel slower. I definitely notice things just not working right in Wayland though. Weirdly, I had an issue where the Synology Drive app didn't want to work in Xorg, but would in Wayland... after a reboot, it was fine though.

Bruh xorg is gone man... fact is if you look into things alot of the Xorg devs left to wayland.. they did so when drafting up X12 which eventually became wayland. Xorg is old bloated and outdated af, code over 30+ years old, bugs that date back to the 80s that have NEVER seen fixes and will never see fixes. And if you have actually used a functioning wayland session I highly doubt you didn't see any performance differences. But seeing you use Debian might explain your remarks here because in a up to date system wayland blows xorg out the water. Also considering you use GNOME explains alot as wayland on GNOME sucks because GNOME being GNOME trys to do their own thing and frankly is terrible. IMO Plasma Wayland is the best implementation of wayland and truly shows where wayland is going and why its just simply better then xorg in every way.

Also I am of the mind set that every so often we need to create new display servers to get rid of all the crud and bloat because eventually wayland will see the same fate as xorg

I'm running Sid. I switch between Xorg and Wayland often, as some software is not working right under Wayland. And literally do not see any real performance differences (Granted, I'm also running a 7800 XT, Ryzen 9 5900X and 32gb of ram. Not the latest, by any means, but not a slouch enough to notice a few bits of slowdown anywhere in Gnome or KDE (I also like to switch between those for different reasons).)

It's funny that you say that Plasma Wayland is the best, considering they were so far behind Gnome / GTK on implementing them.

It could very much be one of those psychological things. Where someone says there is a speed difference and so you notice one, "Sure, I see it!" Kind of like seeing Jesus in a piece of bread? :P

But yes, if you knew how XFree86 evolved into Xorg, and the reasons why... Wayland sounds like they were just lazy and decided to dump Xorg for a newfangled thing. Xorg, at one point, was the 'New awesome and will fix all the problems because it's modular!'

Honestly, I think it's because a lot of people have died and a lot of new people have started using Linux and have been over promised for all these things... Until Wayland can get the damn clipboard to behave like X11, I won't be able to use it full time...

Edit: Just in case you also think "well Debian Sid is still ancient!" I also have Arch on the same system...

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Quoting: KerrWasHere

Quoting: dopeytreeHey Liam and ~Co have you noticed bad wifi with the OLED vs LCD?
I noticed it's terrible on stable & beta channel. But gets fixed on preview channel.
It seems to not go above 110Mbps on anything except preview channel. When same location sat on sofa iPhone gets the full 650Mbps. Updates OLED to preview channel & it then gets up to 650Mbps on wifi ;D

I was wondering why my wifi was not going past certain speeds for downloading. Looks like its widespread

Old and New Steam Decks connect about 700-800MB/s here.

My original one is on Preview and the OLED is on stable. Weird, that's the first time I actually logged into KDE on it...

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Quoting: Caleb_MIf only they could get SkyUI in their store, I'd come back in a heartbeat. Skyrim on deck sounds awesome. But SkyUI is absolutely required for me to enjoy it.

I was going to suggest to just use the Steam Workshop, but it looks like the Skyrim Special edition doesn't have it? Though the non-special edition does?

Bethesda has rarely made much sense lately...

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Quoting: Pengling

Quoting: WorMzyThat's pretty big news -- Bethesda hates Linux.

And their owners at Microsoft aren't known for being fond of it, either.

Haha, they have to prepare for when they replace their kernel, right?

I wish they'd spend the time to update the VR version to be on par with the pancake one.

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