Quoting: TheSHEEEPIt just proves what I always say: Platform support as a KS stretch goal just makes no sense whatsoever, as it is not a flat amount of money to be paid and then it's done, but it is a constant maintenance, which WILL add up to more than the meager amount almost always asked in these goals.

That's why it would be nice for companies to do more 'Linux first' development, and ports to other platforms. That seems to me that it'd be the easiest path anyhow. Apparently Valheim is that way. The gnarly thing is, the mod community don't support it as if it were a Linux game ported to others though, since it's Unity, people just compile their mods for Windows...

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Quoting: MalThat linux isn't immure to malware and virus is knonwn. That kaspesky is the solution... it's questionable to say the least.

The general advice is to modify your kernel with anything that is not trusted and OSS. Know which repo you add to your apt. That already shuts down the most nasty risks. And we know it well enough... it's the reason why anti cheats refuse to support linux. They cannot spy without some kind of user approval... and they don't want to disclose what kind of spying they do.

Then for the rest (all kind of malicious activities outside kernel that is) it's the same as Windows. Educate your users to not do anything stupid on the web. And to not download snaps and the likes from untrusted sources. Which is easier said that done I suppose. Some antivirus support can definitely help here. But the antivirus itself needs to come from a trusted entity :)

I tend to think think there are a few reasons that anti-cheat don't support Linux. You'd have to integrate dkms and keep updating the anti-cheat when the kernel ABI breaks it. At least that would be one of the key reasons. After using Linux for as long as I have, and the many times an external kernel module won't compile on a new kernel is a pain point. It doesn't happen often, but it's often enough.

Of course, the other reason they don't, because most users of Linux are far more conscious about security / privacy than your average Windows user, and know that anti-cheat methods are problematic in these cases. I'm glad that Proton supports certain ones, but it being left up to the devs whether they want to ban Linux users or not is annoying. My vote is to just not support these developers because they refuse to support us.

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Quoting: LoudTechie

Quoting: slaapliedje

Quoting: CatKiller

Quoting: Purple Library GuyI have this feeling that there has been a shift over the years when it comes to this stuff. Some time ago, when someone cancelled their promise of a version of the game for an OS, they would just cancel the Linux version but they'd usually still do the Mac version. These days, they cancel Linux and MacOS if they're going to cancel at all. I'm not sure that's good, misery loves company maybe? but it's different.

It's not really good, no. In the old days, avoiding platform-specific lock-in and having an OpenGL render path got you Linux and Mac. Ditching Linux but keeping Mac was a specific "we love those turtle necks, but fuck those weirdy-beardy Linux folks." Now, Mac work doesn't help Linux work at all - if you can avoid single-platform stuff and use Vulkan for both Windows and Linux you still need an entirely separate render path for Mac. And Mac has a smaller share than Linux. Making a Mac build but not a Linux build (which people still do) is quite misguided. So we get "fuck those weirdy-beardy Linux folks, and fuck those turtle necks: we're perfectly comfortable with Microsoft having a monopoly on the platform we can be bothered with" instead. Macs using Vulkan and not destroying their share of the gaming market would have been much better for us.

Tack onto that the move to ARM for Macs... so not only have they isolated themselves by not supporting Vulkan/OpenGL anymore, but currently supporting two architectures... Plus their ditching of 32bit kind of lends itself to believing that Apple will just drop some other support (like X86_64) some point soon, and you have developers just not wanting to support it.

At this point, supporting a Mac is probably similar to trying to support your game on the Switch, or PS5, etc. But at least the PS5/Xbox is still the same architecture as most computers.

Nah, with switch support you're quite certain the current config will stay supported.
With Mac support you can only speculate what will be dropped next.
I predict the next one will be the current screen proportions.
Also here is an example of something everyone(including consoles) supports except Apple: direct syscalls.
It's explicitly unsupported(you're supposed to use Apple libraries instead) and as such they often include or deprecate syscalls.

The reason I said it's similar to support the Switch and Apple is they are both ARM architecture, so you'd have to port any CPU specific code over. Sure, the shaders, and 3d stuff would all be similar to all the other platforms using opengl / vulkan.

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Quoting: Pengling

Quoting: LoudTechieI thought it was ROSETTA, but that's not the name Apple uses in its announcement.

Rosetta was the tool used when Apple moved from PowerPC to x86 in 2006. It was invisible to the user, and from what little I understand was fairly similar in principle to what we know on Linux with Proton today, but it wasn't gaming-specific.

It is also what they call the newer one that's x86_64 to ARM, which is why they dropped 32bit x86 stuff. It doesn't translate 32bit software over.

Quoting: LoudTechie

Quoting: slaapliedje

Quoting: Purple Library GuyI have this feeling that there has been a shift over the years when it comes to this stuff. Some time ago, when someone cancelled their promise of a version of the game for an OS, they would just cancel the Linux version but they'd usually still do the Mac version. These days, they cancel Linux and MacOS if they're going to cancel at all. I'm not sure that's good, misery loves company maybe? but it's different.

I have a growing theory that a lot of these are actually being canceled by publishers who want deals with Microsoft or Sony... The amusing thing is that Linux users/developers have worked their way around such exclusivity with Wine based solutions. Apple on the other hand... basically depend on those same Wine-devs even to the point to incorporate Crossover into their Game Porting Tool (or whatever that thing is called).

I recently was having the conversation about Valheim, which is apparently developed on a Linux system (which explains why it supports OpenGL or Vulkan) and there is no Mac version. After Apple dropped all 32bit support and more or less killed support for vast swaths of games with that move, I can't imagine anyone else really trusts Apple to do good for gamers in general. So, it's no surprise that publishers/devs are dropping Mac support. They also figure 'Proton will let Linux users play the game' which is why some believe Proton is dangerous to the Linux ecosystem. I think Proton serves it's purpose (as older games for sure would never be ported) but I still maintain most newer games should be cross-platform.

The name of the "game porting toolkit" is literally "game porting toolkit" I thought it was ROSETTA, but that's not the name Apple uses in its announcement.
They also have a Direct3d to metal converter, a shader recompiler and a wayy to slick video trilogy.
It's actually quite funny.
They treat the developers as they would treat their users, little real information, slick interfaces, great marketing and acceptable underlying products.
Also they're a status symbol, so your game is in the marketing consistently a "high-end" game.

Ha, yeah, they call it the 'Game porting toolkit' and I put that in quotes because it's not really porting the game, but is more like how Wine works... literally being based on Crossover/Wine. Though I'm assuming it mixes Rosetta in there for some of the CPU translation layer. I'm not sure how much of that is the open source stuff from Wine, or how much is just Apple code though...

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Quoting: ghiumaUnfortunately after the latest updates it no longer works Steamvr no longer connects to ALVR, any version of Steamvr I use does not connect, perhaps because I use the latest Nvidia drivers? I use Manjaro and it worked great before, I tried on Mint and it doesn't work.

Hmm, I haven't fired up the Index in a long time, and have since moved to a really noisy 7900XT... I'm likely to move back to nvidia when the 5080 is available... Team Green never seems to make cards that whine, where I've never been happy with any of the Radeon cards...

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Quoting: Eike

Quoting: slaapliedjeRight. One other thing in Linux's license defense. It isn't ever-evolving and is a proper license.

What do I mean by this? 'Your privacy agreement has been updated, agree to it to continue using the software.' Or the EULA updates that come after the purchase of the license. How is that even legal? If you consider a license agreement as a contract between you and the software company on how you can use their software (or what they don't want to allow) is updated all the time, they're basically like the Empire... Lando shouldn't have opened the package, apparently.

I don't think it is (here in Europe at the very least). Such things are a matter of being of finding someone to defend it. And of course, it's hard against a pile of money on the other side.

But, on the positive side, "shrink-wrap" licences have been fought and declared illegal (non-binding) here.

Yeah, I mean you don't get to read the EULA until you install the software, especially since physical boxes with a printed copy it under the shrink-wrap is no longer a thing in most cases.

Edit: Hell, it's been ages since you even see a printed manual in a physical release, let alone the EULA packaged with something. Nope, you just get it when you go to install it, and by then, money has already parted ways.

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I need KatVR support in Linux... and then get SkyrimVR all modded up so I can lose some weight running around a virtual world, which seems far more practical than going outside and walking about...

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Quoting: jams32231. I'm here to explain why they're scrapping the Linux and macOS ports. It all comes down to the GameMaker engine. There are some controller bugs that prevent certain controls from being mapped properly, and unfortunately, this issue has never been resolved. Releasing the game with a Linux port could potentially lead to controller problems. That's why titles like Pizza Tower and Katana Zero don't have a Linux port. The game itself runs on the GameMaker engine. I've talked to several developers who use this engine, and they all agree that the only version without these issues is the older one, which is quite limited and not ideal for advanced gaming unless you're working on 2D flash games.

Hmm, so the bug reports should be sent to the GameMaker Engine? Controller support on Linux, while quite excellent, still does not support (natively) newer controller protocols like xbox one. By natively, I mean "Module is not included in the kernel". There's an external module you can download and compile for your kernel, and it works great, but it's still an extra thing to install.

It's nuts that the engine is that broken on the other platforms though.

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Quoting: Eike

Quoting: slaapliedje

Quoting: Eike

Quoting: LachuFor example in License of Windows 10 exist text told, the software is not sold, but licensed.

And so is Linux.

The difference is in the license that Linux has.

It's a licence allowing some stuff and disallowing other stuff. Yes, it's more permissive, but Linux/s uses the very same mechanism Microsoft and Valve and the game publishers are using. If people think this mechanism is wrong (See Lachu above), don't forget to blame Linux/s as well. Giving somebody a licence is nothing to complain about, but the usual way to hand over some rights to a software.

Right. One other thing in Linux's license defense. It isn't ever-evolving and is a proper license.

What do I mean by this? 'Your privacy agreement has been updated, agree to it to continue using the software.' Or the EULA updates that come after the purchase of the license. How is that even legal? If you consider a license agreement as a contract between you and the software company on how you can use their software (or what they don't want to allow) is updated all the time, they're basically like the Empire... Lando shouldn't have opened the package, apparently.

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Quoting: CatKiller

Quoting: Purple Library GuyI have this feeling that there has been a shift over the years when it comes to this stuff. Some time ago, when someone cancelled their promise of a version of the game for an OS, they would just cancel the Linux version but they'd usually still do the Mac version. These days, they cancel Linux and MacOS if they're going to cancel at all. I'm not sure that's good, misery loves company maybe? but it's different.

It's not really good, no. In the old days, avoiding platform-specific lock-in and having an OpenGL render path got you Linux and Mac. Ditching Linux but keeping Mac was a specific "we love those turtle necks, but fuck those weirdy-beardy Linux folks." Now, Mac work doesn't help Linux work at all - if you can avoid single-platform stuff and use Vulkan for both Windows and Linux you still need an entirely separate render path for Mac. And Mac has a smaller share than Linux. Making a Mac build but not a Linux build (which people still do) is quite misguided. So we get "fuck those weirdy-beardy Linux folks, and fuck those turtle necks: we're perfectly comfortable with Microsoft having a monopoly on the platform we can be bothered with" instead. Macs using Vulkan and not destroying their share of the gaming market would have been much better for us.

Tack onto that the move to ARM for Macs... so not only have they isolated themselves by not supporting Vulkan/OpenGL anymore, but currently supporting two architectures... Plus their ditching of 32bit kind of lends itself to believing that Apple will just drop some other support (like X86_64) some point soon, and you have developers just not wanting to support it.

At this point, supporting a Mac is probably similar to trying to support your game on the Switch, or PS5, etc. But at least the PS5/Xbox is still the same architecture as most computers.

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