I played it a very long time ago. IT is a great game. I really liked some of the dev's blog posts. They really go indepth on the why and how the game systems are developed. You can really see they care a lot for the game and give a lot of thought to every system in the game to make sure its fun.

I've been holding off until it's finished to play again. hopefully that'll be pretty soon!

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Quoting: Eike

Quoting: denyasisThe Client will prohibit you from playing two different games on different machines at the same time (almost any 2 games).

This is the point. To the very best of my knowledge - we can test it if you don't believe it - this is not the case. You can copy the game a hundred times and play it simultaneously on a hundred PCs. You don't need to log in anywhere, therefore, there's not anything that could inhibit you from doing things at once. You just got an executable and the data needed and can run it.

Ok... up until this point I was finding this conversation really amusing since it appeared to me that we completely agreed on all the facts, but disagreed on the labeling of the Steam Client as DRM. But your response here had got me really intrigued. Maybe they've changed the Steam Client since I last tried this a few years ago. Lets try it!!

1) Open Steam Client (I realized that since Valve uses Steam for the name of the store and the client program, there might be some confusion - to be clear, I'm talking about the client) on computer A logging in as your normal user.
2) Start a game (I did Dominions 5)
3) Open Steam Client on computer B, logging in as your normal user.
4) Start a game (I did caves of Qud)

Result: I got the following pop-up:

QuoteERROR - Steam
You are logged in on another computer already playing "Dominions 5". Launching "Caves of Qud" here will disconnect the other session from Steam"

Do you not get that pop up? Is there something within the client I should change?

6) Click on "Continue Launch" in the pop-up

Result: Computer A is logged out of Steam with a pop-up:

QuoteREFRESH SIGN IN
This account logged in on another computer

My options are to sign in (which kicks the other computer off of Steam or Exit, which shuts down the Steam and the game)
I can't seem to be able to close or dismiss the pop-up either...
---ooofff and it evokes the TFA every time too when you try to sign in....

Do you get different results? Are you doing something different with the client?

I get that you can directly launch some games from the executable without using the Steam Client, but that's not the point. After all, what is the reason for bypassing the client? To use the software freely, without restrictions? Wouldn't that mean the Client is a DRM tool if we have to bypass it to play the game how we want?

Now, I'm not claiming the client isn't easily bypassed, and for that I'm glad (The number of different modded KSP installs I have is not small), but just because it is easy to bypass doesn't mean its not DRM.


Wait - I just thought of this... what if we launch the executable directly from the client, by adding it as a non-Steam game (or alternatively try to do the above with a non-Steam game(s)).... Let's try it!

So I did the same steps as above using Caves of Qud (Steam) on Computer A. I then launched Myth II (non-steam game added to Steam - native engine). Hey!! No pop-up! Sweet!! That appears to work! Does it work for you too??

Ok, let's get a little sneaky. Computer A, Still Caves of Qud (Steam - It's an old laptop kinda limited in what it'll run).
Computer B - Skyrim SE (from Steam - but the executable has been replaced so it runs Mod Organizer which then runs SKSE which then runs Skyrim). No dice... I got the ERROR pop-up.

Ok - now the most Sneaky... I added Dominions 5 (steam) as a non-steam game, directly pointing it to the executable file (in this case it is a script)... Well, that's weird.... it won't run at all (not even a pop-up). I just tried it for Dominions 5, Slime Rancher, Monster Sanctuary..... Wait... I got it to start with Rimworld and.... That's interesting. So when I added Rimworld (Steam) directly as a non-Steam Game on Computer B, it did start! I didn't get the "ERROR" pop up on Computer A (Caves of Qud)... but Computer B got the "REFRESH SIGN IN" pop up. My choices were to sign in (kicking out Computer A) or Exit, same as before. It is interesting the pop-up appeared in a different order... It appears that Computer B (Rimworld (Steam) - direct launch of the executable as a non-steam game) gtes forced into offline mode. So playable (YAY) but I think we established above there's a limit to how long Steam will allow Offline mode to work before requiring a connection.

I'd conclude that yes, Steam (the Client) does appear to attempt to regulate how and when you can play games under the same account, hence why I would call it a form of DRM. Like I mentioned before it's not copy protections (There's other DRM tools for that), but rather access control, which is still DRM.

If you have a method to launch multiple games from the client, I'd love to know! One of the reasons I pretty much gave up on Linux gaming for my children was that I couldn't play a game on my laptop while they played on the PC\Steam Link. It's not possible to direct launch every game. I'm actually kinda curious if this restriction exists for the Deck?? I can't really see why they would change it, but given it's designed to be more portable, maybe?

Of course, this part doesn't negate the fact the client is required to access the games in the first place. I don't know of a way to direct download a game from the website and install it without using the Steam Client (I think there is/was a command line implementation of the client, but it's still the client). IF there is a way, I'd love to know!

I hope that helps clarify my explanation. If anything is unclear, let me know and I'll try to explain it better. I'm not exactly the most eloquent of writers. I'd love to hear your experiences. If there's a way to (legally) do it within the client, I'd love to know how!

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Huh, this is a really interesting article. Thanks for doing it. I think my initial thought upon looking at them was, well, a lot of skepticism, but after reading it in really intrigued!

Question for you, Liam. You mentioned how well it works with the desktop. How easy is it to read the text? Like can you read the GOL articles easily from your above example? Or it is something that needs more of a 10ft interface to be easy to read and navigate?

I'm kinda specifically thinking of games with small visual elements (Dominions 5, Factorio, etc), or like work stuff (writing, spreadsheets, reading GOL, etc).

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Quoting: Eike

Quoting: denyasis

Quoting: Frawo

Quoting: InstallSteam is drm

This is simply not true, and I'm surprised that this superstition still persists. While Steam actually offers their DRM to publishers, I haven't heard of any game sold on Steam and GOG that got DRM on Steam (though there might be a few exceptions). If you don't believe me, try to launch the *.exe of Witcher or Cyberpunk on Steam without having the Steam client open. I suppose that 99% of what is DRM free on GOG has no DRM on Steam either.

Here is a list of DRM free games on Steam:
https://steam.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_DRM-free_games

Steam is DRM. You must use it to download the game. Steam limits when and how you can play any game.

No, it doesn't. You download the game, and then - as long as there's isn't actual DRM - you can play it when and how you want, without even having Steam at the time of playing.

Yes, it does. Like a said, you need the client implementation to download the game. I'm not aware of any legal alternative (although if you know how to download a game straight from the website without using the client, I'd love to know).

Further, as I mentioned, what you are describing after downloading is a work around, no?. I would also argue It's irrelevant to the argument, since it's a work around that bypasses the client. To me, that's kinda like saying copy protection isn't DRM cause there's a way around (what ever that may be, lol). The Steam client implements access control, which is DRM. The client does limit when and how you can play a game. Examples:

The Client will prohibit you from playing two different games on different machines at the same time (almost any 2 games).

If your playing a modded game where the mods aren't from the workshop, The client can require you to upload a copy of your moded game from your hard drive to Valve or it won't let you launch the game (Witcher 3 with replacement textures).

Quoting: Purple Library GuyEvery time I have ever tried to play a Steam game offline, it tries to phone home, fails, sighs, and says basically "Fine, be that way. Play the game without calling Steam, see if I care!" and I do. I think there's a distinction between nagware and DRM.

It's been about 4 years since I used this trick, but I ran into 2 issues. I'm curious if it's changed.
1) eventually Steam will decide to care and not let you play after so many offline sessions. It basically logged me out until I could get a connection.
2) it still scans the local network for other instances of the client on other machines to enforce the only 1 game at a time policy.

Now Steam does have library sharing, which can solve some of these issues, but it's still a form of access control and, if Steam weren't a DRM tool, would have no reason to exist.

I think the crux of the issue is that people seem to think that the only form of DRM is copy protection. It isn't. Steam's DRM isn't copy protection, it's access control (anti password sharing).

I'm not very good at explanations, so I hope that makes some sense.

Edit:sorry my grammar is really bad today.

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Quoting: Frawo

Quoting: InstallSteam is drm

This is simply not true, and I'm surprised that this superstition still persists. While Steam actually offers their DRM to publishers, I haven't heard of any game sold on Steam and GOG that got DRM on Steam (though there might be a few exceptions). If you don't believe me, try to launch the *.exe of Witcher or Cyberpunk on Steam without having the Steam client open. I suppose that 99% of what is DRM free on GOG has no DRM on Steam either.

Here is a list of DRM free games on Steam:
https://steam.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_DRM-free_games

Steam is DRM. You must use it to download the game. Steam limits when and how you can play any game. That's DRM. Just because there are work arounds doesn't make it any less of DRM.

Now, there can be additional DRM, like various copy protections you mention. And you are correct that not every game ships with those added DRM's (Kerbal Space Program is another example).

Just because the DRM is built into the client and not the game doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

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Quoting: ShmerlI made my own script framework for launching GOG games (both Wine and native), so they are pretty easy to use most of the time, once some commonly necessary things like dxvk and vkd3d-prton are provided. lgogdownloader helps with incremental updates for them using Galaxy protocol.

More active official Linux support from them would be good of course, but they are consistently the biggest DRM-free gaming store, so I don't mind buying games from them and handling set up on Linux myself.

And while I do enjoy the ease of Steam, if we are being fair, it's never been easier to play a game on Linux, even if there is some setup required for a GOG game. It's still practically click and play!

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How am I gonna watch all the shorts for Oxygen Not Included now?!?!

/jk

Not gonna lie, I don't think I ever really watched the trailers. I'd just scroll over to the screenshots or down to the reviews.

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Quoting: PhiladelphusSo, my entirely, 100% subjective opinion: I generally think Paradox DLCs are fine (and I have a lot); they're worth the price to me for what they add. The RimWorld DLCs feel, to me personally, like they could be twice as expensive and I'd still be getting a bargain for what they add. I had trouble believing just how much new stuff they each added, I think I've played full games with less content

I agree with you in regards to the DLC. For me, the debate is less "Do I get value for the price?", and more "Can I afford it?". I don't think I was super clear and wasn't intending to argue that they are over priced (they aren't). I think for some of these games and DLC's, they can be vastly underpriced for what they offer, but I also understand if they raise their prices too much, some people don't won't be able to buy them.

I played a bunch of Vanilla Expanded years ago. It was a lot of fun! I might have to try it again!

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Quoting: MinuxCould you give me a bit of advice about this?

It's a key seller, just like any other. They are legit. Used them for probably close to a decade. It's not illegal to sell a game cheaper than in Steam

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Quoting: Pengling

QuoteWhat have you been playing?

I haven't really played anything yet this week, but I am currently picking out some tenuously-royalty-related games to play during the coronation weekend!

Crusader Kings!!, Lol.


I think I'm gonna play Rimworld and Skyrim. I just started Skyrim and I like it (it's interesting to see the evolution from Arena to Morrowind to Skyrim on the RPG side).

RimWorld is an old standby, but it'll run on my laptop. I'm debating buying the DLC. I know it's more mechanics than content (mods can add content easily). But it's a very steep price for all three 🤔

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