Quoting: RedfaceBut buying Windows games with Steam on proton and then playing it without support is questionable. There have been numerous example of games that work for a while and then suddenly not any more. Most of the times because of anticheats.

It's a very valid worry, but let's not forget that the same has also happened with actual Linux ports (my memory isn't good enough to cite examples off the top of my head, but they have been discussed on GOL in the past). Soon after Proton was announced, there were people asking for certain games to have their broken ports removed so they could be played via Proton. In both cases I think the underlying issue comes down to Linux being seen as a negligible market, and that's what we need to change in the long term.

Quoting: GuestLinux demand is pretty simple. Every game you support that has Linux support is a win for Linux. Every game you support that doesn't have Linux support is a loss, and a win instead for another platform(s).

My take on it, and it's very much speculation, is that we need to lose this battle if we want to win the war. It might cost us more than we like, and it might fail in the end, but the alternative hasn't been getting us anywhere in decades. I'm one to take a chance at success over guaranteed failure.

Quoting: GuestWe should support Linux games i.e. games with full good proper Linux support AND bring as many new gamers to Linux as we can.

We can and should do both things! ^n.n^

I think Proton is the best way we've ever had to do just that. Attract gamers with compatibility layers, ask (because, again, no one cares about the demands of the 1%) for at least Proton support with our meager numbers, and hope for both fronts to improve and feed off of each other.

Quoting: RedfaceIs there actually any game where the developer/publisher have said they will support Proton? I have not read about that, but seen some examples of Developers saying that Linux users just should use Proton since other users reported it works well.

I'm not sure it has happened yet, but I've seen people make the suggestion. If the idea takes, I think it sets us on the right path.

Quoting: RedfaceMost Windows users including gamers probably never heard of it, and a lot of Linux users probably neither. Most Linux users do not game, but there probably also still are a lot of dual booters that think you can not have a good gaming experience on Linux base on what they hear and read and maybe tried years ago.

That's a good point to bring up, actually. A lot of Linux users were already dual-booting for their games, or eventually gave up on Linux because there were too many hoops to jump through. So under that light, not only can Proton help us get new users, but also retain users. Regardless of everything else, we can probably agree that a Proton sale, which sends a message that there is demand from Linux, does more good than a Windows sale from a dual-booter.

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This is going in circles. Kind of like Linux gaming before Proton :P

1. Conflating two meanings of the word "demand" isn't helping anyone.
2. Yes, it's clear that if publishers can get money from Linux gamers without supporting Linux, they will do so.
3. It's also obvious and has been shown that the current number of Linux gamers doesn't matter to most publishers. They don't really care either way if we don't buy their games. Crying about it gets us nowhere.
4. We're not going to break out of that paradigm without a larger userbase. Proton can help grow our userbase by removing barriers to adoption, i.e. making Linux more attractive as an OS for gamers who are on the fence.
5. Once we have bigger numbers, maybe we can start mattering to publishers and convince them to make the effort. Or maybe our own compatibility efforts will have gotten so good that it won't really matter anymore in most cases but publishers will pay attention.

I think there's a middle road we can take as advocates here. First, assuming a limited gaming budget, I do prefer to prioritize games that have actual Linux support. Put my money where my mouth is. But also, what we can do to take advantage from Proton is incite developers to support us through Proton. Everyone likes to take the path of least effort and make more money. If a developer can't be bothered to port to Linux but can be shown that a few fixes to enable Proton would generate enough sales to be profitable, that's a step in the right direction for us.

We're dealing with proprietary software here anyway. Whether it's native or not makes little difference as long as it's properly supported. If a dev wants to support a compatibility layer rather than a full port, I say go for it. As long as we have a promise of support, we're not so much of an afterthought anymore. And then if our numbers continue to grow, there will be incentive to make sure our experience is on par with other platforms, and if that implies an actual port or changing middleware, we'll be more likely to get it.

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Quoting: Sir_DiealotOr there are fewer games for Linux released now that SteamPlay is around. Who can say with certainty? Historical data and statistics probably can. Who is going to dig in?

Still seems too early for statistics to draw meaningful conclusions for something so vague and far-reaching. Game development takes years and most/many devs will need to see the effects of Proton before they start changing their behaviour based on it. In my opinion.

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Same here, I put Hellblade up top after seeing Sin run it on Proton a couple weeks back.

Also, I see Valve have added a banner at the top of the wishlist page to make things that much clearer:

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You could say the same about Spanish...

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I wonder what they did exactly to set the corgis so far back with all those penalties. ("We’ve made some back-end changes to help mitigate some of the snowball effects we’ve seen that have led to Team Corgi running away with the first two days of the races despite their tiny legs. // We’ve changed some code to help deal with the imbalanced team sizes across the board.")

Edit:
They probably shouldn't have made the event rely on team popularity to begin with. Not only was the choice of which team to join either purely arbitrary or a bandwagon of everyone jumping to join whoever was in the lead, but it sucks to leave a portion of your customers out of any real chance of taking part in your event meaningfully.

They could have made one's chances of receiving a free game based on individual contribution instead of team rankings (the more points you contribute to the race, the more entries you get in the draw, with a minimum of 1 per account per draw) and the race results would just have been fluff. Or the race itself could have been based on proportional team member involvement rather than absolute numbers. i.e. if team corgi had 10 times the points of every other team, but only 1% of its members had actually contributed to the event, they might be outranked by a team where 50% of people actively boosted throughout the event. Just off the top of my head.

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Quoting: Whitewolfe80Well its clearly not just me as Valve felt the need to come out and publically state they are fully committed to linux, I have worked at enough large companies for that statement to worry me. If everything was fine you wouldnt need to keep saying something it would be a given yeah why wouldnt it be.

I mean, some people had started to worry that Ubuntu would drive Valve out of supporting Linux. It is a given that Valve wouldn't pull out because of one distribution after all the work and investment of the past months, but since people were worried, it made sense to reiterate their commitment, and more importantly clarify the fact that although their current recommendation is Ubuntu, it's not an exclusive relationship and they don't depend on Canonical.

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They do seem to have reworded things a bit and updated the layout of the page. No announcement that I can see, though.

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Quoting: fabertaweEdit: Also, in regards to the peeps deleting whole wishlists in the wrong belief they need to have just three games in the list for a chance to win them - surely they'll just add back the ones they want after the sale.

I think there can be a valid concern that some indie games will be forgotten when that time comes, especially for people with large lists or for games that were wishlisted a while ago and somewhat forgotten. Even if those were games that were less likely to be bought to begin with, cprn raises a valid point when it comes to wishlist discount notifications acting as publicity.

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Quoting: kokoko3k"Limits breed creativity."
Wonderful, true, never tought of it.

I've felt it since secondary school writing assignments. Tell me to "write something in 500 words" and my brain just runs in circles thinking of what I should do. Give me constraints and my imagination immediately shoots down a path and works it like a puzzle. So I can absolutely relate with Zapa on this :)

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