@liamdawe

Fixed a crash with OpenGL clients on recent radv drivers

This is not odd at all - OpenGL VR games will submit their rendered frames to SteamVR, which will then display them on the HMD. Both OpenGL and Vulkan have interoperability extensions to make this possible.

This broke, so if you tried to play an OpenGL VR game, it would crash. This now has been fixed.

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Quoting: slaapliedjeAwesome! I need more time to play games....

Unfortunately, like @Cheeseness reported, the game seems to crash in VR with this version :(
Both in OpenGL and Vulkan modes.

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Quoting: slaapliedjeDoes it work in VR yet? Pretty sure this one has VR support in Windows

Yes, at least the last time I tried it. I haven't gotten around to re-installing and trying it again with this new version after I reinstalled my system.

I'll try it and see if it still works, and report back.

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Quoting: TheSHEEEPAgain, Moore's Law. It has been disproved. There is a natural limit to how small things can be. But it doesn't matter, my main point is, it will always weigh more than nothing and will always require you to put something on top of your head. Which will always be more than putting nothing on your head.

In that sense I understand now. Yep, it will be more cumbersome than just looking at a screen, and of course more heavy than putting nothing on. If we could just walk into a Holodeck like in Star Trek, that would be awesome, but technology isn't there yet.

Many view VR in this regard like kind of a stepping stone in that direction - and it's what we can do right now with technology. It IS more cumbersome, but honestly - not very much. It takes about 2-3 seconds to put the headset on / take it off, and it becomes second nature very quick. Much like using a joystick for the first time when you've been using a mouse for decades.

Quoting: TheSHEEEPThere seems to be a confusion here about what gameplay is. I might have misused the term, or you did, or it is just one of those terms that are too broad.
What I meant was NOT controls (which is what you describe), but game mechanics.

Understood, but do game *mechanics* need to change for VR to be useful? If so, why? And more importantly, what mechanics would you love to see changed and how? You already get more immersion, and better controls, while still having the same game mechanics (albeit controlled differently).

And some of the VR controls are very much game mechanic related, or change them - like peeking around a corner with your whole body just enough to see, instead of pressing the "v" key and having not much control over the procedure.

Quoting: TheSHEEEPAn own house?
How nice for you. Too bad the majority of people live in (rather small) flats in cities...

And how many people exactly do you think are willing to make the space for VR? Except for gamers/enthusiasts?
Again, remember this is supposedly the "future way people will view/experience things", replacing normal screens and monitors. Nobody has given any point as to why the average person should care. And the average person is very much required for anything to be "the future".

I don't think anyone ever said VR is going to replace screens and mice, or be the big hit for the average non-gamer/enthusiast person. The average people these days doesn't care about computers, let alone computer screens. I can't see a scenario that requires my spreadsheets or code to be flying around me in virtual space, but I am happy to be proven wrong one day. Heck, not even in Star Trek that was done.

But for gamers/enthusiasts, it's a very different story - and that is what people are hyped about. That it works on Linux is even more incredible, thanks to all the people hyped about it.

Quoting: TheSHEEEPIt is simply a fact of life for the majority of people that you cannot really be in your own sphere for large amounts of time. People have families, jobs, responsibilities. Most people I know are happy if they can find one day on the weekend they can spend with their hobby. The rest of the time, they can maybe spend time with their hobby while also having to be somewhat involved in other things.
Only few can afford that VR kind of isolation often. And for something that can only be done rarely, why would you spend the cash?
Anything that wants to be a truly big deal (see above) just cannot be that situational. This is not an opinion.

And here's the thing. People spend much money on hobbies they may not get often to doing.

Quoting: TheSHEEEPIf we all did your form of civilized, we would live in a society of mutes, because everything that could be said, could hurt someone. Better to let things out and allow people to grow in the face of adversity.

Speaking your mind isn't the same as insulting people. The first is OK, the later isn't.

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Quoting: TheSHEEEPWireless can be done, but that introduces a need to keep your headset charged. Which introduces the need for a battery of some kind. Which increases the weight. Even if the devices do get lighter as a whole, there are limits to how light they can be, Moore's Law has been disproved years ago. There will always be that.

That's not a fact. Did you try the new wireless Vive Pro yet to know how heavy it really is? What about all these new battery technologies that make them very light that are being developed as we speak? What about other future developments? Remember - computers used to be the size of a house!

Quoting: TheSHEEEPGames not specifically made for VR, but just supporting it cross-peripherals (VR is not a platform, it is a peripheral) can never be a significant improvement gameplay-wise, yet require effort by the developer to support VR.

Again, that is not a fact - but your opinion. Plenty of people that played VR vs non-VR disagree with you here, and find the experience way better, including gameplay-wise. There's some cool things you can to with the VR controllers - specially the Occulus Rift ones - that aren't possible (or more cumbersome) with your keyboard and mouse. Like moving fingers, picking things up, moving / rotating them around, etc...

Quoting: TheSHEEEPSpace: The "full body" VR experiences (which offer significantly more than just sitting with the headset) require a ton of space. Most people simply don't have that space or are not willing to spare the space. For some proper movement that doesn't feel restricted, you'd need at least 2x2 - 3x3 meters. That's the size of a trampoline. Compare it to the space PC & monitor needs.

Yes, you need a bit of space to take full advantage of VR, which is a fact well pointed out. I barely have space, but I'll make sure to have space when moving into a new house. But here you're assuming again that people don't have space and don't want to make space, which honestly, again is your opinion.

Quoting: TheSHEEEPPrice: The better the tech gets, the more expensive the devices will be. They do get cheaper with time, but just as every proper hardware, they will remain on a not-cheap level. And that will always be in addition to the PC/console - which already cost quite some dough as well.

Let's not forget that proper gaming peripherals have never been cheap, I spent $150 alone on my keyboard. When VR headsets are produced in even more numbers, price shouldn't be that of an issue. But this is a valid point.

Quoting: TheSHEEEPNo multi-tasking. When I play a game, I like to have something else running on my other monitor. Maybe a guide, maybe something entirely different. I can always have both in my view at the same time. And I can interact without problems with the world around me, too. Like looking at someone when talking to them. Or grabbing a drink. Good luck with any of that while you have the VR headset on...

Again, your opinion. You assume everyone wants to have other things running while playing VR, or hates not being able to interact with the world around them while playing. And honestly, grabbing a drink you can still do when taking a break while playing...

Quoting: TheSHEEEPWhat I do hate is human stupidity and mostly baseless hype.

If people like it, what problem is there that they hype it? If people like something, shouldn't they be excited and spread the word?

Quoting: TheSHEEEPWrong. Calling people for what they are behaving like is simply the truth and I will continue to do so. If you think me short-sighted, call me out on it, I'll gladly disprove that.
Let's not get to the kindergarden level of "let's all say nice things only", please. That doesn't lead anywhere useful. I rather have people speak their mind than trying to be nice for the mere sake of being nice.

Whoa! If you don't want to have a civilized discussion, but instead insult people, then let's just stop right here. Because THAT really doesn't lead to anything useful.

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Quoting: TheSHEEEPFunny, first you make the suggestion, then you say it's not enough.
Grasping for arguments, are we?

That wasn't me, I didn't suggest anything?

Quoting: TheSHEEEPI don't need to do or play more than that to see what is going on. As a gamer for over 20 years and a 3D programmer for more than 10, I know more than enough to recognize this whole thing for what it is:
Lots of hype with not-nothing but fairly little substance behind it.

And that is exactly what I thought too! I didn't get the hype about VR at first - until I had a proper go at it. And I have been a gamer for over 20 years and programmed games too.

It's not perfect yet - I'd still want a few things improved, like wireless by default, better peripheral vision and better screens. From what I saw, that is what the new Vive Pro they just announced is gonna deliver (and while being lighter, too). But my current Vive still is a cool experience - not only confirmed by me, but by people that had a go on it.

Quoting: scaine@beniwtv - Edge of Nowhere looks incredible (with or without VR). Would love to see something like come to Linux.

Indeed! I hope more developers realize SteamVR works on Linux and enable the VR option in their builds. Or even just enable it - in case of Everspace, developers left it enabled in the Linux build and I was the first to try it and report it work, which also amazed the devs...

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Quoting: TheSHEEEPI did try it at a VR arcade. Played some zombie shooter with a friend. It was fun for an hour or two - if I had been alone, it would have been even less.

Sorry, but I don't think that is enough to get a good picture of VR games and it's capabilities.

Quoting: TheSHEEEPBut, not surprisingly, only for first person games.
Which in itself limits the viability extremely.

Good luck playing in VR something like Europa Universalis, Street Fighter, Factorio, StarCraft, Sonic... the list is endless.
It would take an extreme amount of effort to make non-FP titles even somewhat usable in VR - and the result would still at best be at the same level. You won't see a noticeable increase of immersion when playing a non-FP game in VR. What developer would ever go the extra mile to offer that?

Just one I know of the top of my head:
http://store.steampowered.com/app/238280/Legend_of_Dungeon/

Some others I found searching 5 minutes (there are probably others as well):
http://www.playfulcorp.com/#lucky
https://www.oculus.com/experiences/rift/1026648920729545/

Look, nobody says you should like VR or get VR, but please make sure you inform yourself about the subject, before calling all gloom and doom.

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Quoting: Sil_el_motYet i am struggeling to make the Vive work on linux, just to see that there are no games to play in vr right now (everspace works i heared, will test this)

You might be interested in this list we are compiling then: https://steamcommunity.com/app/250820/discussions/5/133257959064016658/

@liamdawe You might want to link this list in your VR articles, just so people know where to look.

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Quoting: TheSHEEEPQuite honestly, I still see VR as little more than a gimmick.

I can see absolutely no breakthrough for a tech that requires you to have a rather clunky and heavy (even the lightweight ones) device on your head all the time.

Quite honestly, the Vive is not that heavy, I don't even notice it when I'm immersed in the game. You do notice more the fact that the current Vive does not have good peripheral vision, or the cable behind your back. The new Vive version will even be lighter, and wireless, so I really don't see that as an issue. Future versions will be even lighter I would suppose.

Quoting: TheSHEEEPAnd don't even get me started on most of the games made specifically for VR. Horrible stuff. Remove the VR aspect from them and what you're left with is games that wouldn't even sell on mobile because of simplicity and bad design.

If we take out the "specifically made for VR" games (which I don't think is the best example of VR), there are some really good games for VR out there - Serious Sam / Talos Principle / Everspace for Linux, Lone Echo / Doom 3: BFG Edition with VR Mod / Star Trek Bridge Crew / Fallout 4 / Elite Dangerous for Windows, Resident Evil 7 for Playstation VR, just to name a few.

True that there are a lots of "tech demos" out there that aren't real games, and that the number of good VR titles is still low compared to normal games (even more so on Linux), but it's far from not having any good games.

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Yep, SteamVR on Linux is getting very good. Some issues need to be fixed, but it's slowly getting there.

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