Quoting: Penguin PusherAnyway. What I wanted to show is that Valve is capable in supporting old games on Linux, while GOG is hiding behind a wall of excuses.

I think you miss the point. The bulk of all these discussions is not about difficulties with supporting DOS games (which is pretty trivial given the wide availability of ScummVM and DosBox). It's about difficulties (whether real or perceived) with supporting native Linux games.

For all I care, there is practically no need in additional support for DOS games on GOG for Linux users. You can download them as is, unpack with innoextract, adjust config files and run them in your DosBox / ScummVM. "Support" from GOG here would be mere convenience and maintaining separate config files for Linux, Mac OSX and Windows when needed. Native Linux games support is a completely different beast altogether, and lacking native Linux games is a serious problem in comparison with little inconvenience of tweaking DosBox config files.

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Silviu: They are no tied. I just see no point in supporting Steam to begin with, since Steam itself proliferates DRM as a whole. I.e. anyone who cares about DRM and has an option to get the same thing on GOG or Steam should consider GOG. I don't use Steam at all anyway, that was about people who tolerate DRM to some degree. Of course for those who don't care at all it's unimportant.

Quoting: scaineSame reason as GoG then : "Unfortunately, due to the number of versions of Linux, we are not able to support any of them as far as we wanted to"
Surprising that a myth like that is prevalent. Do they really care about the number of distros, or does it come back to packaging?

In case of CDPR this answer is strange though. They also say something like:

We always strive to provide players with the same quality no matter the platform on which they play and support our game after the release of patches and accessories for all systems in which they operate. Unfortunately, due to the number of versions of Linux, we are not able to support any of them as far as we wanted to and in accordance with the adopted standards. At the same time we do not want to to differentiate fans on more important and less important, and decide on which Linux specifically our games will be available. Therefore, at present we do not expect adaptations for this system. However, we will inform you on a regular basis, if in the future this decision will change.

GOG indeed deals with code for which they have no sources, and if they want to provide long term support, they have a number of problems to solve. CDPR have their sources and can provide support as along as they want to. The point about not differentiating fans is also weird, since by not making Linux versions they precisely differentiate their Linux users as second class citizens.

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Quoting: Penguin PusherFascinating! Valve ist able to do, what GOG can't!

Wizardy 6 & 7 with DOSBox including Linux:
http://store.steampowered.com/app/245410/
http://store.steampowered.com/app/245430/

This particular example is exactly the opposite though. Same thing on GOG and DRM free with that
https://secure.gog.com/game/wizardry_6_7
In such DOSBox/ScummVM cases GOG is a much better place to go than DRMed Steam. I wish GOG would sell Loom and other classic Lucas Arts games as well. But no luck so far.

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On related note, an answer from CDPR about their view on porting their games to Linux (you might need to translate that - see reply from Karolina_Gnaś_IR, 25.06.2013 / 13:48). That's for sure sounds like a brush-off answer to me, and not a serious position on this matter.

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I think packaging and deployment while being an annoyance, are minor issues in comparison with what TheEnigmaticT was saying about long term support. To take a recent example. I got one game on Humble Bundle while being on Debian testing during the recent Wheezy release freeze. The game didn't work, since it was built against newer glibc than the one used in that Debian. The freeze was longer than usual and those freezes are annoying, but it was still less than a year long, so Debian testing didn't fall behind glibc wise that much. Now, this might be not the most common situation, but it's still a possibility. And now with major X.org -> Wayland shift coming along, some games also can break I bet. All this is not the end of the world or the reason to avoid supporting Linux. But those are real concerns.

Really, I have no idea how GOG can solve this "ideally". They only can support such and such range of middleware long term. Unless they are willing to stretch their support too wide making builds for all kind of combinations, which is costly.

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Quoting: AnonymousIndeed. I liked GOG.com, but they are talking bullshit. It is dishonest and dumb excuses. I would respect them if they would say "Linux has too small market share and we are not interested". Instead they just make it like there are 9000 distros and it is impossible to handle. They say it to generally well-versed technically users, really?

And by saying "Mint", "Debian" and Chrome OS as most popular distros, they show their incompetence.

How exactly that is an incompetence? Not sure about Chrome OS (I don't follow it at all), but Debian and Mint are indeed very popular. Not sure if making such close related choice is a good idea though. I'd pick Debian and openSUSE for example for wider variety.

While I don't agree with GOG's excuses, they aren't dumb given their policy which they clearly explained. You don't agree with them aiming at long term support? I think they can offer shorter term support for Linux games as well. But it's up to GOG to decide.

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Quoting: DrMcCoyI already voted for that. Over a year ago.

By the way, do you know if GOG actually contributes to ScummVM or DosBox code wise?

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Quoting: DrMcCoy

Quoting: Quote from TheEnigmaticTI understand that you're all fans of the OS and you're part of an active community that is passionate and dedicated--all things that have gotten GOG.com where we are today--but you're also part of a *small* community.

I'm also part of the ScummVM team*, one of the legs you base your business on. And I'm telling you, you're talking bullshit.


*) Of course, I'm only talking for myself here
*) And while we're at that topic, I'm still not happy about how you handle ScummVM and DOSBox integration: I'd wish you'd advertise on the game page when you're using ScummVM or DOSBox. For both other-OS-compatibility questions and, well, "proselytising", for the lack of a better word, about FLOSS. I'm aware that legally, per the GPL, you need to do no such thing, but I do find it quite sad how well you hide that you're using FLOSS. /tangent

GOG does acknowledge the usage of ScummVM and DosBox.
But I'd appreciate them pointing it out more explicitly in each game card. You are free to vote for that, there is such request already in the GOG wishlist.

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Hehe, Android. I actually suspect that they'll start selling mobile Android games before any support for desktop Linux. GOG has official R&D projects for new systems planned for 2013. And if that's not going to be desktop Linux, then Android it will be.

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Quoting: SpeedsterP.S. gentoo is my favorite distro, so I'm not saying this as an Ubuntu fanboi -- it's just the sensible choice for out-of-the-box support since Valve and Unity already picked it. I have no problem with dual booting to Ubuntu if I can't get something working in my favorite distro!

I don't think Ubuntu has an edge over many other distros. They PR themselves like that, but one should not make choices based on PR. I actually like the fact that GOG doesn't look at the hype and chose Debian amongst the distros to perform their tests on.

Steam solves part of these updates problems by providing a massive unified runtime which is independent from the rest of the system to a degree, which I think is an overkill on one hand, but on the other hand simplifies many issues which GOG representative was talking about. I suspect GOG moves in the same direction.

Quoting: BoTuLoXThey just don't want to port their RedEngine them middleware-hungry pussies. They would not release to a platform their flaghsip game doesn't support. So... they're not getting my money with the Witcher 3 now.

They surely aren't getting my money for the Witcher 3. Either until they'll release it for Linux, or until Wine will add DirectX 11 support, whichever comes first. CDPR usually decline to comment when you ask them about porting Witcher games to Linux. GOG is not limited to distributing Witcher though. And in reverse, most of CDPR sales come not from GOG in general, but from consoles and Steam I'd guess.

In the end, if they want GOG to grow and compete - Linux support is a must. CDPR/GOG know that, but they just don't rush it.

Quoting: WHO GARAAnd who cares?  Never heard of gog.com until this post.  Don't give a shit if they rot.

Anyone who cares about DRM free gaming. Show me another big digital distributor who has a strong DRM free stance. You can't? Just as I thought. GOG is second to Steam, and unlike that big DRM proliferator, GOG has a clear cut no DRM policy. So if anyone can bring a healthy DRM free gaming to Linux, it's GOG. Valve already blew it by bringing all the DRM junk with Steam to Linux.

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