Quoting: Guest

Quoting: Samsai

Quoting: Liam Dawe

Quoting: GuestWow, looks like an sjw wet dream, I mean they already established 2 terrorist groups under the names ANTIFA and BLM. These people are nuts, truly thinking the world would be better if it was conquered by china...

China? I think you're confusing Socialism with Communism there.

Isn't China pretty much just a ultra-capitalist hellhole that just happens to be operating under a "communist" one-party system? I mean, for a worker utopia the workers sure don't seem particularly happy.

Yes. Because communism doesn't work.

Quoting: Liam Dawe

Quoting: GuestThese people are nuts, truly thinking the world would be better if it was conquered by china...

China? I think you're confusing Socialism with Communism there.

Oh so would you prefer the soviet union over china then? Mm, such nice form of government there.

It doesn't really matter which you go for, it's gonna end bad. Capitalism is great in that it drives progress in all fields as everyone strives to compete with each other, I think we've sorta reached the end of the line there as by this point the corporations are starting to try taking over the world (and succeeding too) and have found simpler ways of increasing profits (marketing and PR) than offering better products.

Change sure is needed, but be it socialism or communism, neither would improve anything, in the absolute best case scenario, they would provide stability and comfort for society for a couple years, at best couple decades, before it all collapses under it's own weight.

Horrendous derailing incoming.

It might be worth keeping in mind that world isn't quite as black and white as what your writing seems to imply you think it is. Political and economic systems have a bit more variety than Soviet Union or our current capitalist systems (not to mention I'm pretty sure MY capitalist system differs plenty from YOUR capitalist system). There have been many proposed reasons why the USSR/China/North Korea systems have created quite awful messes and one of them is the inherent authoritarianism they have been built upon, which allows the elite to screw over their people while reaping all the benefits themselves (sound familiar?). Whether that is actually the case or not, just boiling things down to "<ideology> doesn't work" is not really productive.

You also brought up the failures of capitalism but interestingly you seem to be opposed to toppling that system, which may or may not require some kind of an uprising a la the game in question. This makes me think, how do you think a failing system should be fixed, particularly if that system benefits people who are powerful enough to resist amicable attempts to fix it?

And finally, it is actually possible to construct new systems by combining parts of other systems that have been proven beneficial. It is possible to have markets and competition in otherwise socialist systems for example. Limiting yourself to a binary choice between extremes generally leaves you with two bad choices. Some additional nuance is usually required.

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Quoting: Liam Dawe

Quoting: GuestWow, looks like an sjw wet dream, I mean they already established 2 terrorist groups under the names ANTIFA and BLM. These people are nuts, truly thinking the world would be better if it was conquered by china...

China? I think you're confusing Socialism with Communism there.

Isn't China pretty much just a ultra-capitalist hellhole that just happens to be operating under a "communist" one-party system? I mean, for a worker utopia the workers sure don't seem particularly happy.

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Quoting: adibuyono

Quoting: Samsai

Quoting: adibuyono

Quoting: Samsai

Quoting: mcphailI package a few games. I'm not sure whether to add this to the .desktop files. Would it be seen as user-hostile if I was making this default decision for users? Most of the games I package would run satisfactorily on integrated graphics but might be better on a dedicated gpu.

There are laptop configurations where the dGPU is functionally slower than the iGPU. My laptop for example is like that, the iGPU and dGPU are rated at just about equal performance but either due to thermal issues (single, shared heatpipe) or other overhead the dGPU consistently under-performs. On the other hand though, these kinds of systems are basically broken designs, so they may not be worth working around.

If you are unsure then relying on the default behaviour where GNOME optionally allows launching games using the dGPU is probably fine.

Sound like Asus X550DP 😂

HP Notebook 13 or whatever. Got it because it had a hybrid GPU setup I could test for GOL with an APU + AMD GPU combo. At the time most laptop choices were Intel + Nvidia and I have no interest in buying an Nvidia card.

I see.. Your case is similar to my Asus X550DP. It come with AMD A10-5750, Dual Graphic HD8650G + HD8670M.
I have been hunting a way to use discrete graphic card on Linux but ended up with no easy solution. At the end, i find out that the dGPU is just very slight better than the iGPU, but it came with a great cost. A lot of x550dp user ended up with dying GPU due to overheat. Luckily I moved to Linux after few months purchasing it and find no way to active the dGPU.
I wonder why the manufactures implant a dGPU if it's perform almost similar to iGPU.

The original purpose of those setups was to use Crossfire between the APU and the dGPU to get higher performance. Obviously on Linux Crossfire was never really a thing, so it's not relevant to us. Technically Vulkan could make use of such setups but it's debatable if game devs will actually bother.

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Quoting: adibuyono

Quoting: Samsai

Quoting: mcphailI package a few games. I'm not sure whether to add this to the .desktop files. Would it be seen as user-hostile if I was making this default decision for users? Most of the games I package would run satisfactorily on integrated graphics but might be better on a dedicated gpu.

There are laptop configurations where the dGPU is functionally slower than the iGPU. My laptop for example is like that, the iGPU and dGPU are rated at just about equal performance but either due to thermal issues (single, shared heatpipe) or other overhead the dGPU consistently under-performs. On the other hand though, these kinds of systems are basically broken designs, so they may not be worth working around.

If you are unsure then relying on the default behaviour where GNOME optionally allows launching games using the dGPU is probably fine.

Sound like Asus X550DP 😂

HP Notebook 13 or whatever. Got it because it had a hybrid GPU setup I could test for GOL with an APU + AMD GPU combo. At the time most laptop choices were Intel + Nvidia and I have no interest in buying an Nvidia card.

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Quoting: mcphailI package a few games. I'm not sure whether to add this to the .desktop files. Would it be seen as user-hostile if I was making this default decision for users? Most of the games I package would run satisfactorily on integrated graphics but might be better on a dedicated gpu.

There are laptop configurations where the dGPU is functionally slower than the iGPU. My laptop for example is like that, the iGPU and dGPU are rated at just about equal performance but either due to thermal issues (single, shared heatpipe) or other overhead the dGPU consistently under-performs. On the other hand though, these kinds of systems are basically broken designs, so they may not be worth working around.

If you are unsure then relying on the default behaviour where GNOME optionally allows launching games using the dGPU is probably fine.

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Cue Microsoft demanding that people go back to their offices. :P

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This thread apparently got a bit heated, so I'll share some ideas of mine. Comment sections about hardware releases need not devolve into calling others ignorant or a shill. People have different sorts of ideas as to what good hardware purchases are like and what sorts of technologies is going to be driving performance in the future. I would suggest stating your views and the facts and feelings you think support that stance rather than going for ad hominems because someone's views don't line up with yours. Throwing around insults and labels only shuts down discussion and encourages responding in kind which creates a toxic environment for all.

---

On the actual topic, I find these processors a useful choice for customers on a budget. Their core counts will probably eventually be a limitation on performance but 4/8 can still get current stuff done decently well and there is a viable upgrade path to higher core count CPUs from these ones when quad-cores no longer cut it.

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A few things.

QuoteYou are so wrong it is not even funny. First of all, the 2600 uses 1 256bit AVX2 command per 2 clocks, instead of 1 clock. This is HUGE for next gen games. Guess what, AAA next gen games will require AVX2 baseline, since consoles have it. And having proper 1 command per clock support for AVX2 will make a huge difference in the AAA games to come. So buying older architectures than Zen 2 in my opinion is not worth it.

To put it into perspective, it is the difference Bulldozer architecture had with Intel in gaming. It had HALF the floating point performance, which hurt gaming a lot.

This assumes you can actually feed AVX2 workloads every clock in games. There are some game engine architecture choices that are capable of utilizing SIMD but claiming 1 clock or 2 clock AVX2 submission is going to be as dramatic as Bulldozer's shared FPUs doesn't make sense. Bulldozer did poorly in gaming because gaming is full of single floating point operations, since much of the data in games is represented as floating point values. Not to mention non-game processes could require the FPU while the game is running which stalls the floating point operation.

QuoteCaches aren't really important in current video games. Obviously a few years from now this may change, but a few years from now you will probably be upgrading the 3300X anyway... What matters most is the speed/latency of those caches, for gaming purposes. And i think since both cpus are of the same architecture they will feature similar speeds. Cache would play a huge part if it was cache for the igpu part of an APU, other than that, the vast majority of games are more than fine with 3300X levels of cache.

I find it particularly funny that you in consecutive comments argued for the importance of AVX2 but then followed that up by saying cache isn't that important. Cache is what keeps those AVX2 instructions fed, otherwise you will stall until the RAM slowly drags your data set into your L3 where it still needs to traverse into L2 and L1. Presumably games don't just load a single vector workload and endlessly FMA that same vector. Not to mention the significance of caches when it comes to data-oriented design, such as ECS systems, which have been gaining popularity as of late because, as it turns out, cache misses are harmful to game performance too. In this regard bigger caches absolutely do matter since we use multi-way caches and more cache lines means more slices of memory can be kept in L3 without having to evict already loaded data.

So, if you are going to be rude and accuse people of being wrong and shills and whatnot, I would also recommend that you at least be correct in your claims. Or consistent. Or generally constructive.

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I feel like we have some preconceptions of what a fork is for, which is colouring the discussion a fair bit. We mostly see them in the context of severe developer disagreement or actual project death. In this case I don't see an issue with a fork, since the fork isn't really competing with KWin proper, from the description it sounds like they want to code fast and break often in order to pursue progress. It probably could have lived as a branch in the main KWin development tree but that would either limit the ability for users to test it or you would end up in a situation where the branch is a de facto fork except without its own repository.

I do naturally hope that any usable improvements get picked up by KWin and the two projects merge back together when the goals of the fork have been achieved.

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Quoting: joder666

QuoteWomen represent about 50% of the population but are under-represented in software development.

BS, as always. Change under-represented for NOT interested, which right now is also a lie, and we can meet in the middle.

Wait, so, you think that 50% of software developers are women? Or that 50% of GNOME community members are women? Literally don't understand your stance but I'm going to assume it's not correct either way. No need for me to meet you in the middle.

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