The "states' rights" argument is basically just nonsense. It doesn't help anybody's democracy when the states that "benefit" from Roe v. Wade being overruled are ones that are horrendously voter suppressed and gerrymandered. We've also seen what this "states' rights" thing has been used to campaign for in the past and it definitely wasn't for something that would lead to greater equality and democracy for all.

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Yes, please.

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Quoting: RichardYao

Quoting: damarrinI'd be happier with snaps if at least they started faster. 10 secs for FF from an NVMe drive, 40 seconds from a spinning drive in a recent Ubunt is a joke.

The downside of duplicating shared libraries is that it does not take advantage of the system page cache (or ARC for ZFS), so load times are higher. :/

From what I heard, the main problem with load times is that a cold Snap package first needs to be decompressed (fully, I guess?) before it is launched. But I guess duplicated libraries would also affect page cache.

However, that doesn't need to be the case. If the runtime uses similar shared libraries with other packages, it would be possible to deduplicate that stuff either on the package technology level (like Flatpak runtimes) or on the filesystem level with online or offline dedupe and reflinks. I don't know enough about Snap to make strong claims about how effectively or ineffectively it uses these methods. Considering Flatpaks seemingly don't have the same cold start delays, I am guessing at least not very effectively.

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Quoting: sudoerthe desktop (PC) is getting irrelevant day by day, to be more precise, it's getting transformed from the powerhouse running "the real thing" locally, and of which you had full control with GNU/Linux into a more and more closed, dumb terminal, which will communicate with the servers and the mainframe via a browser

This was happening before Snaps and their usage or lack thereof does not affect cloudification one bit. Most of mainstream cloud activity is happening around OCI and Kubernetes, someone installing a Flatpak on their system has absolutely zero bearing on that.

Quoting: sudoerit's happening already with Software as a Service and Platform as a Service

It's good to see you found Wikipedia. SaaS and PaaS are indeed a thing. We've also got IaaS and FaaS, just so that we can fill out the vocabulary.

Quoting: sudoerif you endorse snap (and competitor's version flatpak) that was originally released for cloud applications[2] but was later ported to work for Internet of Things devices and desktop applications you are just accelerating the transition without knowing it, that's the whole point.

Not even a hypothetical causal link is established. Usage of Snaps is fairly marginal in cloud and usage of Flatpaks in there is essentially non-existent. Not to mention using desktop applications from Snap or Flatpak does basically nothing to contribute to these techs being used on the cloud, because you don't run desktop applications on the cloud. You run services with web frontends. And you can do that probably easier with OCI images and Kubernetes deployments than by installing a bunch of Snaps on some server boxes.

If you are worried about the cloudification of software, you are actively doing a disservice to your cause by advocating for actions that will have zero effect on cloudification. If you want to stop cloudification, you need to either make software resistant to cloudification (heavy use of AGPL or non-OSI stuff like SSPL) or you need to provide an incentive/disincentive structure that makes creation of desktop software more appealing than cloud-oriented software. On the disincentive side you can create legal constructs like stronger data protection legislation to attack the profit margins of cloud companies. Or on the incentive side you can make creation and distribution of desktop software so easy, simple and profitable that it becomes the de facto mean to ship stuff. That makes things like Flatpak necessary, by the way, because making your software available across the various distributions is a mess otherwise. And if you want to popularize the third party desktop application as the standard, then having those sandboxing features also becomes quite important, especially when it comes to proprietary software. Unless you want to make it so that all software will be FOSS, in which case I applaud your cause and wish you well on your legislative efforts.

Quoting: sudoerYou are already on the bandwagon as I see by your own reasons, it's OK.

Fun memes. Except I am probably the most outspoken member of the GOL editorial team against cloud gaming and for the creation of a thriving, native Linux software ecosystem. But going by your raving and ranting, you probably consider anyone who doesn't agree with you "brainwashed", so really I arguing my points for the audience, rather than you.

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Quoting: sudoerThe dilemma flatpak or snaps is illusional and misleading. Do you prefer playing games at your PC or streaming games from servers like Google Stadia? This is the question you have to ask yourself before it is too late.

Things are very simple. If you use flatpaks and snaps you are killing the Desktop in the long run, which means you are killing the Personal Computer as we knew it for 40 years, and the dominant corporate Linux companies (Red Hat, Ubuntu) who only care for IoT, cloud computing, their $$$, have brainwashed you perfectly.

A perfect example for the latter is reading OP going to a distro that updates itself biannualy! in order to... use flatpaks! there (snaps the other corporate equivalent)

Package managers following UNIX/GNU/Linux tradition were written with and respected the KISS principle, containers are adding unnecessary complexity with tons of issues and all this is being done by corporate companies, who are using fanbois of trademarks as a battering ram.

If you keep being lazy using the Windows/Apple paradigms, if your argument is "that's how Google with Android does it", if you keep playing their game with containers which were initially intended for servers (& immutable devices) but they found ways into "convincing" you -by youtube influencers and general ignorance, especially using Linux newcomers who are presented with Snap versions of Firefox and Chromium by default-, soon your PC will be just another console, I can see already those youtube influencers and probably OP in a year talking about how great Fedora Silverblue and the equivalents are, Shells (your Personal Computer in the Cloud) is already here.

You've got a pretty nice slippery slope there. The only thing your assertions are missing is causal linkage from one to the next, but I'm sure that it's not necessary when you can substitute it with hyperbole. :P

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Quoting: Liam Dawe

Quoting: sudoer

Quoting: Liam Dawe

Quoting: scaineWell, the article says Arch, but I think it was EndeavourOS that Liam was on before he hopped on to Fedora. Indeed, it was his article about it that convinced me to make the same leap. I've been on Endeavour for about 2 or 3 months now. It's great - really enjoy it, and no breakages, whatsoever.

Specifically I used the EndeavourOS installer yes, but everything else on EndeavourOS is plain Arch, their extras are very minimal and all Arch updates come as normal.

There's no such thing as the "EndeavourOS installer", you were using EndeavourOS as it configures everything for you not in Arch's way, which is a DIY way, but as EndeavourOS devs pre-configured it for you, so you should alter your title accordingly.

Again, Arch is not EndeavourOS because EndeavourOS gets Arch's updates.

Honestly, this is a level of pedantic that just doesn't help anyone. There is no special "Arch way", everyone has it done slightly differently - because that's Arch. EndeavourOS is 99% just an installer, with a few extras. Once installed, you're on Arch.

It's not 100% pure and holy Arch on the way it's initially setup, but everything comes from Arch including every single update - that's Arch enough for me. Feel free to argue it, I don't care, it's Arch.

It's also not relevant in this scenario, since EndeavourOS does not provide a configuration for Pipewire since by default it ships with PulseAudio still. So, the Pipewire configuration would have been exactly same on Arch and on EndeavourOS.

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Quoting: vildravn

Quoting: Samsai... When I switched to Fedora Silverblue ...

Oh hey a Silverblue user with sort of similar specs to mine! How do you like it for gaming, if I can ask? :)

Works about as well as anything else. Steam runs as a Flatpak and I maintain a Toolbx container for the miscellaneous Itch.io and GOG games that require more specific dependencies. There are some annoyances, like for instance I haven't found a reliable way to run SC Controller yet, but generally speaking it hasn't gotten between me and my games at all. Most stuff just runs OOTB on the Steam Flatpak and for the rest I can drop down to a Toolbx and pretend it's an ordinary Fedora.

The real benefits of Silverblue are obviously elsewhere. I like the simplicity of the system updates and separation of system, apps and development environments. Being able to rollback bad updates (including OS version updates) and updating my dev environments separately from my system is also neat.

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Quoting: ertuquequeI think the secret is to know what to expect, you gotta work with them, it's a team. Yes, you can try new things (Pipewire), but don't blame it on your distro if that new thing doesn't work... I haven't tried it because I want to wait until it's much more stable. My distro is more important than a Pipewire adventure!

There is also a difference in philosophy at play here. I was on EndeavourOS until around the end of last year and I was using Pipewire as well at the time. Pipewire released a version with a regression, which was identified and patched but the patch only made it to the next release. During that time Endeavour (or rather, Arch) carried a flawed version of Pipewire because they generally don't patch software themselves. When I switched to Fedora Silverblue, they used the same version of Pipewire except they carried a patch to fix the regression.

So, in this case there's a different trade-off at play here than just "software X is new and experimental". Fedora commits more to keeping a functional configuration and they'll try their best to also apply system configuration changes over releases, whereas on Arch your config files might eventually just drift out of date and you'll need to manage your .pacnews in order to keep your system working correctly.

There's of course arguments to be made here one way or the other. You could argue that it's not Arch's responsibility to manage your configs for you or patch the software in their repos. Maybe Pipewire should do more minor releases to fix issues quickly upstream. But on the other hand, some people just want a system that works and preferably keeps working.

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Quoting: nenoroLiam: i leave systemD for systemD

Oh come on liam join gentoo we have cookies

Liam has in the past nuked his system by compiling OBS and you suggest he use Gentoo? Pretty bold, if you ask me. :P

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Quoting: LinasThe architecture of Chrome OS is really overcomplicated. They insist on running everything in those "containers", which are actually more like a full blown VM's, because not even the kernel is shared with the host. That is why everything is in constant alpha, and takes forever to integrate into the system. Just seems so counter-productive to me.

Some people have been suggesting it's because this separation would allow them to swap out the system underneath if they want to. So, they could swap out the underlying Linux kernel with Fuchsia for instance and not affect the containers running on top. Who knows if that will ever materialize or if Google does the Google thing and just throws Fuchsia away, but at least the explanation would make sense.

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