Quoting: a4644246Im not calling names Im just describing my observation. When there is a problem in F/LOSS just ask your self "What will Linus do", he would throw couple of "f*** you"s then said do it right way or GTFO. My approach is healthy for F/LOSS platform it is unhealthy for corporation and developers, and if they dont care about F/LOSS platform I dont care about them.

Linus Torvalds is in a special position. The kernel team is very exclusive and they have to have a clear authority to make sure the kernel doesn't suddenly break completely. Here you are on an open community website and here your attitude is only poisonous and it won't be tolerated.

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Quoting: pd12Actually, I think that was an example, and devs saying "anyone can monetize videos of our games" or "we have no problem with you[plural] monetizing videos of our game" should be OK.
You just need to find that blogpost they said it in .. =D

Apparently YouTube no longer likes these sorts of blanket statements on websites etc. and demand personal permissions. For example for me that would be completely unreasonable, because I have hundreds of videos of games from dozens of developers/game studios and I doubt I would be able to get permissions from all of them.

Luckily the GOL Casts at least fall under fair-use and I am sure we can talk our way through those, but let's plays are on the grey zone between what is acceptable and what is not.

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Gaming videos are a major part of the YouTube ecosystem and if they think they can be idiots to the gaming people then YouTube will quite simply collapse. It's not like there aren't alternatives and pushing this sort of stupidity on us will just drive us away from the Google monopoly.

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Quoting: scaine

Quoting: SamsaiWhy do I care about a thing that makes the game to now work properly? Because I own it and I expect a non-beta release to work. People have pointed out that eON is most likely the cause for these problems and that means that they need to improve eON to run this game better.

Well sure. But do you know it's eON? The only people that can tell us for definite is CDPR and then we're back to my argument. I don't care if it's eON. I'd just want them to fix it.

Liam, in his last answer, suggests that previous eON ports for Mac have been bad too. Again, that has a lot of supposition, but if even he's right what can you do about it?

Obviously you can stop ever buying games that have eON in them, but there's two problems with that attitude.

1. How do you know?
2. Some eON ports work fine, so you could be avoiding a perfectly good game.

So I'd rather focus on the game itself rather than banging on uselessly and ineffectually about a component that works well in other situations.

I think the dev who went onto the Steam forum admitted that they had problems with Linux, which lead to decreased performance, so there have to be problems with their port. And because they didn't change the base game and just packaged it with eON, that leaves eON to blame for the performance.

Your second point is really off-topic, but now that you mentioned it, I have never heard of any eON games that worked perfectly. And I think you also said in an earlier message that you don't know other eON ports on Linux, so I doubt you know a single perfect eON port on Linux.

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Quoting: scaine

Quoting: Samsai

Quoting: scaine

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: scaine

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: scaineBut what rankles the most is that you're not listening. I've told you why eON is irrelevant and you just don't care.

I'm curious, do you know of any other game ported to Linux with eON? Or is it the first one? From what I understand there might have been a few games released for Mac using it, right?

No, I don't know. Because I don't care. The result is what matters. Does it work well? Great. Don't care how it was done.

To be clear, I'm talking about ports of older games. I'd prefer future games to be made "properly", but you have to be realistic about this.

Well, I agree it does not matter provided it works well. That's not exactly the case in this instance. What if eON is the issue? Then it matters.

Well, this is digressing into the first argument all over again and I don't feel like talking about pizzas, geeks and the fashion industry all over again. I've stated my case. eON is irrelevant. The game "The Witcher 2" is what we should be talking about.

Okay, let's assume that eON is irrelevant. What is it that makes The Witcher 2 Linux "port" crawl on apparently most hardware combinations?

I don't care. As a customer, I simply want CD Projekt RED to fix it. I'm curious. Why do you care?

Why do I care about a thing that makes the game to now work properly? Because I own it and I expect a non-beta release to work. People have pointed out that eON is most likely the cause for these problems and that means that they need to improve eON to run this game better.

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Quoting: scaine

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: scaine

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: scaineBut what rankles the most is that you're not listening. I've told you why eON is irrelevant and you just don't care.

I'm curious, do you know of any other game ported to Linux with eON? Or is it the first one? From what I understand there might have been a few games released for Mac using it, right?

No, I don't know. Because I don't care. The result is what matters. Does it work well? Great. Don't care how it was done.

To be clear, I'm talking about ports of older games. I'd prefer future games to be made "properly", but you have to be realistic about this.

Well, I agree it does not matter provided it works well. That's not exactly the case in this instance. What if eON is the issue? Then it matters.

Well, this is digressing into the first argument all over again and I don't feel like talking about pizzas, geeks and the fashion industry all over again. I've stated my case. eON is irrelevant. The game "The Witcher 2" is what we should be talking about.

Okay, let's assume that eON is irrelevant. What is it that makes The Witcher 2 Linux "port" crawl on apparently most hardware combinations?

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Quoting: MikeI have to say that I have not really experienced issues with the game, so it might just be on some cards and some drivers that the performance is bad. I'm using a GTX 750 ti with the 334.21 drivers and it works pretty well on nearly maximum settings.

The game itself on the other hand (so far) has really not been that great. I love RPGs, but the first hour or so of playing (as far as I got) just feels like I'm taking orders from and being talked down to by a game that's pointlessly over-complicated. Comparing this to the Elder Scrolls game (closest comparison I can make), the UI, skills, combat, tech trees, etc. are just cumbersome and get in the way of the game as you're constantly pausing and navigating through counter-intuitive menus with different features that don't really need to be there. So far there has been nothing "fun" about this game, it has just felt like the developers are testing me like some snarky overweight PC gamer with a £1000 rig trying to prove a point about how they are so much more superior than us mere mortals. Don't think I'll bother playing this until I have a bit more patience.

The UI was quite confusing, I agree. So far it has done its job though and I more or less understand everything necessary, so I am not complaining too much about that. I might complain more if I weren't so starved for RPGs at the moment though. :P

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Guys, chill out. We are seeing results ranging from complete unplayability to decent performance and we have no idea why, but playing the blame game isn't going to do any of us any good. Please refrain from insulting others.

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Quoting: dimo2

Quoting: SamsaiUmm... what else can be blamed but the wrapper? The game uses a wrapper and on Linux the performance sucks. On Windows on the other hand it doesn't suck. Let's put 1 and 1 together and we find out that the wrapper IS CAUSING PROBLEMS.

Just gonna hijack this discussion...
That statement is just really generalizing.
Jus because it performs better on Windos in comparison does not indicate that the wrapper is shit.
MetroLL, to my knowledge, was a completely native port that still performed and looked worse on Linux/Mac than it did on Windows, as did plenty other games for me, like Psychonauts.
In fact, on a related note, the Pychonauts native port on Mac performed much worse than the App Store version which used a Crossover solution.

What Im saying is, running the game using a wrapper is not indicative of a bad port and a native conversion does not always indicate a good port and good performance.

MAYBE it's their shoddy wrapper that's causing the performance issues, but it's not like them doing a fully native port would fix every problem, especially since this seems to be their first time dealing with Linux.
If they fix their wrapper to adress all the issues/optimize it (which the clearly should've done a better job at), then I see no issues with them using a wrapper. In fact, Valve kinda showed them how it should be done with Source and togl.

As scaine said, it's the outcome that should matter, not what technique they're using to get there, at least in my opinion.

I am not against wrappers in general. But there is a huge gap between a good wrapper release like System Shock 2 and Witcher 2. If a wrapped game works nicely then I'm okay with that. Like I said, I am not blaming every single wrapper out there. However Witcher 2's wrapper is obviously not doing a good job of presenting this game.

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Quoting: scaine

Quoting: GuestSo yes, the blame for the technical issues is from the wrapper, in my opinion.

And again with the wrapper! Are you in cahoots with Liam? :)

Standards are being applied to this that no other industry has to deal with. In my pizza example, you'd demand to know HOW the pizza was made. In the car industry, you'd ask the salesman how the welds were joined. In the fashion industry, you'd demand to know the stitching method.

It's not the HOW that is important. It's the end result. There are exceptions to this, such as DRM, of course. But using eON is not an example of this.

Good points about my faulty extrapolation on Steam sales though. There will be many Windows users buying this of course. I hadn't taken into account the fact that they'd put it on Sale at the same time as the Linux launch. And true, not everyone will complain but the countpoint was that almost no-one will champion it.

Umm... what else can be blamed but the wrapper? The game uses a wrapper and on Linux the performance sucks. On Windows on the other hand it doesn't suck. Let's put 1 and 1 together and we find out that the wrapper IS CAUSING PROBLEMS.

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