The wild west approach still produces the best results though.

Quoting: GustyGhostThe wild west approach still produces the best results though.

Citation needed. And even if that were true, here's some food for thought: Wars push technology forward by leaps and bounds (and are good for business). Does that mean we should all want to live in a war zone? Or does it not matter as long as you're safe? Extreme example, but valid analogy I think.

It seems well though out, but there are two parts of it that irks me;

1)
"to suggest that others use nonfree software opposes the basic principles of GNU, so it is not allowed in GNU Project discussions"

iirc Stallman has been quote vocal about free meaning 'provide source or gtfo'[paraphrased], to stymie the discussion like that has the effect of creating an echo chamber. I get they don't want trolls popping by going "use windoze l0z0r!" but to for instance being baned from suggesting using closed source drivers... :|


2)
That foot note.. I mean I do get the intent, but it's even stupider than the whole "gnu/linx" thing -.- We've been using "he" as a gener neutral noun for donkeys ages and to the best of my knowledge no man has felt emasculated by this. But now suddenly there are people who've grown up so swaddled in cotton that the real world with all it's sharp edges and imperfections is a place of danger and personal affront, so the world had better damn well change to their tune..
Also using "zhey" there is just no way not to have the entire thing suddenly come out in a terrible German accent ala. Herr Flick from allo-allo xD

Stallman was/is quite vocal about free NOT meaning open source (eg. source or gtfo), but open source rather being only a part of free.

I'm always surprised by people hating on Stallman and the free software movement here, some even going so far as to deny the fact that if it wasn't for him, the free software community wouldn't exist. I get that many people (including me) are not perfect, and use blobs or other non-free software, but why should the promotion of non-free software be allowed in a project that has a mission of opening up computing to anyone?

In my opinion the driver situation has gotten worse - it used to be that one could boot up a system without using blobs, now the much praised AMD hardware can't even boot up without the non-free blob installed. My last 3 installations i had to boot back to the installation media as the computer was unable to display even the text session.

Also, if all the "triggered" people here read the note, he personally suggested using the word person, which is a reasonable alternative until getting "triggered" by pronouns gets out of vogue on both sides of the "issue".

Quoting: dvdAlso, if all the "triggered" people here read the note, he personally suggested using the word person, which is a reasonable alternative until getting "triggered" by pronouns gets out of vogue on both sides of the "issue".

He actually suggest using "person" or "perse" as a pronoun. That doesn't solve any problem IMHO, and the fact that "perse" is a rather crude word for ass in Finnish makes it a bit funny for me and my compatriots.

Also who's triggered? The comments seems quite calm to me, maybe apart from your own. I don't see any evidence of "hating on" Stallman either. No need to polarize the issue.

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: dvdbut why should the promotion of non-free software be allowed in a project that has a mission of opening up computing to anyone?

(...)

Because censorship is useless ? I like FOSS, i just do not want to boycott proprietary software. If i participated in a FOSS project and people started to nag me because i speak about the (proprietary) games i play on my beloved Linux, i'd go do something else with less religious people.

That's just a strawman.

I don't know how your beloved Fortnite or CS:GO would come up in 'GNU Project discussions'. Also, it is perfectly reasonable that such projects demand that they need no blobs or proprietary software to work. They are not revoking anyone's licence to publish open source stuff that relies on non-free software, they just say (quite rightly) that anyone promoting non-free software should GTFO and do it outside the scope of the GNU project.

Quoting: tuubi

Quoting: dvdAlso, if all the "triggered" people here read the note, he personally suggested using the word person, which is a reasonable alternative until getting "triggered" by pronouns gets out of vogue on both sides of the "issue".

He actually suggest using "person" or "perse" as a pronoun. That doesn't solve any problem IMHO, and the fact that "perse" is a rather crude word for ass in Finnish makes it a bit funny for me and my compatriots.

Also who's triggered? The comments seems quite calm to me, maybe apart from your own. I don't see any evidence of "hating on" Stallman either. No need to polarize the issue.

Quoting: tuubi

Quoting: dvdAlso, if all the "triggered" people here read the note, he personally suggested using the word person, which is a reasonable alternative until getting "triggered" by pronouns gets out of vogue on both sides of the "issue".

He actually suggest using "person" or "perse" as a pronoun. That doesn't solve any problem IMHO, and the fact that "perse" is a rather crude word for ass in Finnish makes it a bit funny for me and my compatriots.

Also who's triggered? The comments seems quite calm to me, maybe apart from your own. I don't see any evidence of "hating on" Stallman either. No need to polarize the issue.

Of course, because this shit is not on all forms of social media, where all the right and left wing nutters take turns expressing their outrage over "pronouns". And it is now exported on GoL too. Reading and watching this shit prop up for years is not so much fun especially as you can't even escape it in real life now, fascist propaganda is omnipresent these days...

Quoting: dvd

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: dvdbut why should the promotion of non-free software be allowed in a project that has a mission of opening up computing to anyone?

(...)

Because censorship is useless ? I like FOSS, i just do not want to boycott proprietary software. If i participated in a FOSS project and people started to nag me because i speak about the (proprietary) games i play on my beloved Linux, i'd go do something else with less religious people.

That's just a strawman.

I don't know how your beloved Fortnite or CS:GO would come up in 'GNU Project discussions'. Also, it is perfectly reasonable that such projects demand that they need no blobs or proprietary software to work. They are not revoking anyone's licence to publish open source stuff that relies on non-free software, they just say (quite rightly) that anyone promoting non-free software should GTFO and do it outside the scope of the GNU project.

"Man I need to unwind, any good FPS games on GNU/Hurd?"
"No but you can run Fortenight via steamp.." [banned]

A constructed example to be sure, but censoring the discussion by banning people from suggesting that a non free tool is potentially better than a free one only has one effect - creating an echo chamber.


I mean imagine GOL started banning people that suggested to use actual windows because wine can't run a game somebody desperately wants

Quoting: dvdOf course, because this shit is not on all forms of social media, where all the right and left wing nutters take turns expressing their outrage over "pronouns". And it is now exported on GoL too. Reading and watching this shit prop up for years is not so much fun especially as you can't even escape it in real life now, fascist propaganda is omnipresent these days...

Social media provides a hungry audience for the worst of the worst on all sides, but let's leave them there, please? If only so I can keep trying to ignore the worst of the shitfest. It really helps if we actively resist the vocabulary, the tribalism, the shouty style of discussion. Throwing around generic insults and polarizing hyperbole just spreads the toxicity. Fighting fire with fire only results in a bigger conflagration.

Spoiler, click me

Rant continues:
Opinions and gut feelings matter more than facts. Or worse, people can't distinguish between these concepts. They might even deem the difference irrelevant. Rational thought and diplomacy are seen as signs of weakness. Maybe because moderate views don't sell as well as clickbaity trolling and scaremongering. You can't keep anyone's attention for more than a few seconds if you don't do your best to shock them or incite them into righteous fury. This is idiocracy at full swing. Resist this as best as you can. Be kind to each other, and not only towards other kind people. Stallman might be a (lovable) loon, but this is where he's completely right. Fight ideas, not people.

Especially since GNU's document does not propose to ban users for straying from the guidelines. I imagine a removal of said posting and a warning would be a likely first step for a transgression of that kind, not obviously meant to troll the community.