Right, and I buy games because they support the OS I use and I decide where I spend my money.

Just for the record, I have plenty to play. :)

Quoting: Liam DaweRight and I buy plenty with big discounts. I buy games as a gamer interested in the game specifically, not just or only because it “supports” Linux with a special native build that most devs say over and over hasn’t really been worth it.

I suppose it comes down to economics. If you don't buy games that don't support the platform, and everyone did it, they could potentially lose what? 500k of profit, maybe? Let's look at Steam Deck numbers (granted if people only bought native games on there, and that was the only library that showed up, how many would actually be buying Steam Decks?) It's already over a million sales of the Steam Deck. Sure there is a chicken/egg problem with that, as no one would have bought it without Proton. Lack of Proton (hence any game compatibility) is likely why the Steam Machines failed (that and the various build and price points). But that's the thing though... if developers actually coded multi-platform from the beginning, instead of doing special native builds in a separate tree... then it's totally worth it. Paying porting houses, and continually having to send patches to them is less likely to be worth it.

The numbers are there; people still release all the ports for the switch, and that's an entirely different architecture. Wonder how many sales independent games get on the Switch?

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm very much more likely to buy a game that directly supports Linux rather than one that does not. Though it isn't the most important thing (like I've stopped buying Early Access games, been burned too many times.)

Quoting: slaapliedjeI asked Ubisoft tech support about something years ago. Was actually shocked they fixed my issue.

I'm glad you had better luck, but I contacted them once over Assassin's Creed Odyssey asking for a non-existent product key. The Ubisoft client was working, I could see my other Steam linked games in there, but the new one just would not "activate".

Ubersoftturd basically said it wasn't their problem, they don't issue product keys for Steam versions. (I didn't even mention the word Linux, by the way).

Therefore, I decided it wasn't going to be MY problem, so I just sent it back on Steam. It's not valve's problem either, it's Ubisoft's activation (I wouldn't even bother Valve with that).

P.S. If you haven't noticed, I am not fond of Ubisoft :-)

Last edited by Grogan on 26 June 2023 at 12:36 am UTC

Quoting: Liam Dawenot just or only because it “supports” Linux with a special native build that most devs say over and over hasn’t really been worth it.

I'm not sure if I understand in the right way.

Do you start to have doubts about porting games to Linux x86-64?

Do you think that Linux with Wine/Proton should be another OS/2?

I know that OS/2 lost the competition when games and applications specifically designed for this system were abandoned by companies.

These types of comments about low sales are something that Linux users don't like to hear. In this case, you have some impact on which companies and games you write articles about it.

On the other hand, publishing many games for Windows and Android could generate sales lower than expected by the company. In many cases, companies could be closed down if they invested too much money in a specific game.
In my view, we worry too much about similar issues that always existed on different platforms.

Quoting: GroganUbersoftturd basically said it wasn't their problem, they don't issue product keys for Steam versions. (I didn't even mention the word Linux, by the way).

P.S. If you haven't noticed, I am not fond of Ubisoft :-)

It's weird seeing the Ubisoft logo on boxes with CDs of Theocracy and Yohoho! Puzzle Pirates. They allowed two companies to publish the Linux versions on CDs when it was such an unpopular system.

Last edited by gbudny on 26 June 2023 at 1:45 am UTC

Quoting: Liam DaweGames that used eON are a fine example, as are Feral ports. The reality is: every game uses some form of abstraction or translation to get their cross-platform support. What level will people go to before they accept it? Proton runs games you've purchased, on your machine, at a level often very comparable to Windows regardless of how the developer cares for Linux. It should be accepted not frowned upon, but I feel that element of the community will likely never go away.

Speaking of levels, it depends on what level the translation is used at. I'd be pretty confident that even from-scratch ports still use a translator at the source level for the DirectX to OpenGL/Vulkan.

If "wrappers" are going to be used, well, I think Wine and the API translation technologies (and/or Proton, collectively) do it a lot better, hands down. All the devs/publishers have to do is stick to sane uses of established APIs. Do that, give it a nod of acceptance (while perhaps not assuming obligation for support, I'd accept that as I do now) and that's all we should need. We're not quite there yet, but closer, and the Steam Deck strategy can get some praise for that.

Feral did a good job on their ports by personal observations. I have to admit I bought games I wouldn't otherwise have been keen on, simply because I wanted to see quality usage of our technologies in action and to see them get a sale. Things like the DiRT games, and the Tomb Raider games for example. They were very nice, and I hope that when I get back to them, they can still be made to run (otherwise Proton... so unlikely to get completely burned)

All of those eON wrapped games were poor, but some were worse than others. (Witcher 2 wasn't the worst, at least not by the time I tried it on Linux). They were usually still playable if willing to sacrifice pride and think beyond "just look at this garbage! argh". It was good to have at least something for entertainment without having to boot to Windows, in those days.

Quoting: WorMzyRight, and I buy games because they support the OS I use and I decide where I spend my money.

Just for the record, I have plenty to play. :)

I'm not specifically arguing against doing that though. More interested on why it's so important? Being native doesn't actually mean you're going to see good support. We've seen plenty of native games vanish, plenty of them break, release without a single bit of testing etc. There's really absolutely no guarantee that being native means anything.

My whole point is just to focus on the games you want, regardless of how they're run. We're here to game right?

Last edited by Liam Dawe on 26 June 2023 at 9:02 am UTC

Quoting: Liam Dawe

Quoting: WorMzyRight, and I buy games because they support the OS I use and I decide where I spend my money.

Just for the record, I have plenty to play. :)

I'm not specifically arguing against doing that though. More interested on why it's so important? Being native doesn't actually mean you're going to see good support. We've seen plenty of native games vanish, plenty of them break, release without a single bit of testing etc. There's really absolutely no guarantee that being native means anything.

My whole point is just to focus on the games you want, regardless of how they're run. We're here to game right?

I think the encouragement for native should still be the thing; if only to make a game's code more stable / diverse. But this means multiplatform from the start, instead of doing 'ports.' Publishers not utilizing the 'export to Linux/Mac' feature of Unreal Engine and Unity is kind of crap for anyone who wants to game on such a platform.

Hilariously, Apple again is copying rather than innovating, and also going to integrate wine into macOS. It'd be interesting if Proton could ever get out from under being in Steam and just integrated directly in distributions (I know there are ways to use it outside of Steam, but some sort of invisible thing like OS/2 with DOS applications.)

Quoting: gbudnyDo you think that Linux with Wine/Proton should be another OS/2?

I know that OS/2 lost the competition when games and applications specifically designed for this system were abandoned by companies.

Ha, I said the other day that if ArcaOS actually had a current port of Wine for it, it would be a very awesome alternative for Retro gaming machines! I'd much rather run that than have to deal with Win98 and the service packs that random people online have built.

Quoting: Grogan

Quoting: gbudnyThat is a terrible example.

No, it's apt because there are a lot of those eON monstrosities.

Bioshock Infinite, too.

Every stinking one of those runs like utter shit these days, if they work at all.

The point is, I'd rather have a game working well through Proton.

I don't think it's a big issue because VP published eight games to Linux, and they stopped doing it.

Quoting: Grogan

Quoting: gbudnyThe lack of technical support is just a minor inconvenience. You can use the old version of the operating system or try to troubleshoot it.

Tech support schmeck support... I've never had much luck with that. Has anybody ever tried "tech support" for a software product? You'll be better off asking other users in forums and such. Maybe somebody knows a solution, instead of those canned idiots whose real job seems to be getting you to go away.

The difference is that they are just coming right out and telling you to your face that they can't support every configuration. With games now it's not a big risk (easy to refund).

It depends on who you are talking to and what you are asking about. My experience with things like lost keys and issues with orders is mainly positive. I hate when some companies leave your message unanswered.

Quoting: slaapliedjeIHa, I said the other day that if ArcaOS actually had a current port of Wine for it, it would be a very awesome alternative for Retro gaming machines! I'd much rather run that than have to deal with Win98 and the service packs that random people online have built.

They probably don't have enough money to build and maintain Wine for ArcaOS. ArcaOS has more modern software than Windows 98. It's a nice option to run applications for DOS/Windows 3.1, and you can use it to access the internet.

There is something magical in these old machines with unsupported systems. I enjoy playing some games for Linux on old computers connected to my modern monitor.


Last edited by gbudny on 26 June 2023 at 8:02 pm UTC

Thanks for all the comments. It’s good to see we have a vibrant community of assorted views here 🤟

Quoting: Liam DaweThanks for all the comments. It’s good to see we have a vibrant community of assorted views here 🤟

Speaking of an assorted view. The grammar of the forum is a bit weird. "gbudny replied to Proton is the only hope? plus so did 1 more people" Ha, always love programming grammar errors, where it doesn't take into account 1 = person. It's like some of the code at work where it has 1th 2th 3th 4th...